Audrey French on How to Get Comfortable Living Outside Your Comfort Zone

In Chapter 4 of 18 in her 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, entrepreneur Audrey Parker French answers "What is Your Comfort Zone and What Do You Do to Break Free of Living in It?" French notes she has lived her life constantly outside her comfort zone, nearly always in environments where she is the outsider. This pushes her to always be moving and developing. As an introvert, she finds solace spending quiet time in those rare moments she is able to slow down.

Audrey Parker French is an entrepreneur who co-founded CLEAResult, an energy management consulting firm she helped grow to #144 on the 2010 Inc. 500 list of fastest-growing private companies and then sell to General Catalyst Partners. She currently volunteers as a Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA) and teaches children's choir. She graduated from Wake Forest University and lives with her husband in Austin, Texas.

Audrey French on How Emotional Vulnerability Can Build Relationship Trust

In Chapter 7 of 18 in her 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, entrepreneur Audrey Parker French answers "How Do You Establish Trust When Building Relationships?" French finds sharing a vulnerable moment or being open to showing emotional vulnerability is a good way to build relationship trust. This helps her create and open, sharing and accepting environment to engage others in and out of work. Audrey Parker French is an entrepreneur who co-founded CLEAResult, an energy management consulting firm she helped grow to #144 on the 2010 Inc. 500 list of fastest-growing private companies and then sell to General Catalyst Partners. She currently volunteers as a Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA) and teaches children's choir. She graduated from Wake Forest University and lives with her husband in Austin, Texas.

Audrey French on How to Be a Better Mentor to Young Women Professionals

In Chapter 10 of 18 in her 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, entrepreneur Audrey Parker French answers "How Are You Learning to Be a Better Mentor to Young Women Professionals?" After selling the company - CLEAResult, she co-founded, French is able to get space and be a more engaged and useful mentor to young women professionals trying to better navigate their careers. Her own entrepreneurship experience teaches her the importance of not needing to have all the answers before moving forward on a big decision. Audrey Parker French is an entrepreneur who co-founded CLEAResult, an energy management consulting firm she helped grow to #144 on the 2010 Inc. 500 list of fastest-growing private companies and then sell to General Catalyst Partners. She currently volunteers as a Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA) and teaches children's choir. She graduated from Wake Forest University and lives with her husband in Austin, Texas.

Brett Goldman on Having Courage to Stand Up for What You Believe

In Chapter 2 of 18 in his 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, real estate developer Brett Goldman answers "What Childhood Experiences Have Been Most Fundamental in Shaping Who You Are Today?"  Goldman recalls a fight he backed down from in elementary school.  He regrets the experience and it drives him into boxing.  He takes away a life lesson to be courageous and stand up for what he believes. 

Brett Goldman is a Real Estate Acquisitions Director at Triangle Equities in New York City.  He holds a BA in General Studies from the University of Michigan and a Masters in Real Estate Development from the Columbia University Graduate School of Architecture, Planning, and Preservation.

Mike Germano on Performing Under Pressure in a CEO Job

In Chapter 16 of 20 in his 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, Carrot Creative social media agency CEO Mike Germano answers "What Does It Mean to Perform Under Pressure in the Work That You Do?"  Germano shares the pressure-filled moments that come with busy travel schedules and high stakes client pitch meetings.  He notes the greatest pressure and stress come from managing 60+ employees and being responsible for their livelihood.  He The more he can see his employees making a difference by the work they create, the more he feels capable of shouldering greater levels of pressure and stress. 

Mike Germano is co-founder and CEO of DUMBO Brooklyn-based social media agency Carrot Creative.  Previously, Germano ran for and was elected to public office in Connecticut.  He is a graduate of Quinnipiac University. 

Mike Germano on Why Brands are the New Venture Capital Investors

In Chapter 19 of 20 in his 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, Carrot Creative social media agency CEO Mike Germano answers "Why Do You Believe That Brands Are the New Venture Capital Firms?"  Germano finds there are progressively more ways for entrepreneur designers and developers to find money.  What Germano thinks is key now is distribution and he finds large brands have this distribution and also have innovation constraints.  With their innovation needs, access to investment capital, and distribution, Germano sees brands as the next generation of venture capital firms. 

Mike Germano is co-founder and CEO of DUMBO Brooklyn-based social media agency Carrot Creative.  Previously, Germano ran for and was elected to public office in Connecticut.  He is a graduate of Quinnipiac University. 

Phil McKenzie on How Family Support System Helps You Manage Stress

In Chapter 1 of 18 in his 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, entrepreneur Phil McKenzie answers "Where Has Your Family Been Most Supportive in Your Career Development?"  He finds support in his family's encouragement and how it has helped him stay positive.  Being reassured by his parents provides a stress outlet that helps him fight through the entrepreneurial struggle. 

Philip L. McKenzie is the Founder and Global Curator of Influencer Conference, a global content platform that brings together tastemakers in the arts, entrepreneurship, philanthropy and technology to discuss the current and future state of influencer culture. Prior to that, he was Managing Partner of influencer marketing agency FREE DMC and an equities trader at Goldman, Sachs & Co.  He earned an MBA from Duke University and a BBA from Howard University.

Phil McKenzie on What You Learn Bootstrap Financing a Startup

In Chapter 7 of 18 in his 2013 Capture Your Flag interview, entrepreneur Phil McKenzie answers "What Has Bootstrapping a Startup Taught You About Doing More With Less?"  Bootstrap financing his startup teaches McKenzie to get creative with limited resources.  It forces him not to be lazy and to make the most fewer financial resources, for example when getting publicity and marketing his business. 

Philip L. McKenzie is the Founder and Global Curator of Influencer Conference, a global content platform that brings together tastemakers in the arts, entrepreneurship, philanthropy and technology to discuss the current and future state of influencer culture. Prior to that, he was Managing Partner of influencer marketing agency FREE DMC and an equities trader at Goldman, Sachs & Co.  He earned an MBA from Duke University and a BBA from Howard University.

How to Ask for the Job You Want

In Chapter 7 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How Did You Get Hired as an Art Director Without Being a Traditional or Obvious Candidate?"  During an interview, Chen is asked "What do you really want to do?" and after answering not with stylist but rather with art director and creative director, she is given an opportunity to interview with a creative director.  Chen gets the art director job.  This experience teaches Chen to ask for the job she wants. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How did you get hired as an art director without being a traditional or obvious candidate?

Lulu Chen: Well, I did some art directing when I worked at Self Magazine, and, you know, you had to work on the styling and art directing, so that was really great experience for me, but recently, transitioning into more of an art directing role than a stylist role. This is a really funny story. I actually went in to an interview thinking of applying for a fulltime styling position, but it turned out that the company was so big, and that specific job was actually with an acquaintance friend of mine that we had worked together years ago, at Condé Nast for. But, you know, sitting in his office, he basically—we were both like, “This isn’t for you.” Like, “It’s a writing job. You can do it. You can do these pages. If you really want it, you know, I’ll think about it. But what do you really want to do?”

And in the last couple of years, I’ve been thinking about like, “Oh, you know, someday I’d really love to be a creative director. I’d love to do something a bit more bigger picture.” You know, just kind of growth and transitioning, and—I don’t know—setting up new challenges for myself, so, he kept pressing me, like, “What do you really wanna do?” Like, “What do you wanna do? What do you wanna do?” And I was like, “Oh, my God. I just want, you know, I wanna be an art director and a creative director one day.” And it just came out. And—but I had never said it out loud. I—you know, I kind of questioned some friends who were art directors and, you know, tried to kind of get their advice on, “Oh, what do you think?” or “How do I do it?” But I never really just put it out there, you know?

And sitting here in an interview, and I’m like, “I can’t believe I just said that.” But it is, it’s true. It’s really what I was hoping for. And, you know, his response was, “Fine. Okay.” And you’re like, “That’s it?” “Really, it’s that simple?” I mean, you know, I never thought—“Oh, you just keep asking. You just keep asking.” Or, you ask—You ask, you know, and sometimes, you know, someone will be like, “Fine. Try. Go for it”, you know, maybe— So I was really lucky, he—and I really appreciate that he gave me the opportunity, and he put me in touch with his creative director. And love this man, so, so—I don’ know—just inspirational. I think I had a 12-minute interview with the creative director. And he spoke, like 3 languages in that time. Picked up a phone call in French, said hi to me in Chinese, told me about all of operations, looked at my portfolio, showed me, like, some video that he had done, like, in 12 minutes. I mean, it was like the fastest talker I’ve ever met in my entire life, that type of thing. And you’re just like, “Whoa.” You know, and he said, “Okay.” He’s like, “We’re gonna give you this chance.”  

You know, maybe he didn’t say that literally, but he gave me the chance and I remember this so clearly, he said, “Do good and good things will happen, and, yeah.” And he’s like, “Just don’t F it up.” And he kind of put the fear of God in me, but at that moment, I was like, “Well, there’s no going back now, so, you know, that’s not an option. So you’re just gonna go for it”, you know. You know, so I did.

Adam Carter on Searching for Meaning by Traveling Abroad

In Chapter 4 of 13 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, micro-philanthropist Adam Carter answers "Where is Your Comfort Zone and What Do You Do to Break Free of Living in It?"  After graduating college, Carter decides not to pursue traditional career paths and instead looks for meaning traveling abroad.  He starts his adventure by buying a one-way ticket to China.  Over time, he works summers selling beer at baseball games to finance international travel.  Ultimately, Carter decides to break out of this routine, walk away from the beer vendor life, and relocate to Brazil. 

Adam Carter is a micro-philanthropist currently living in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.  He is the founder of the Cause and Affect Foundation which raises small amounts of financing to provide direct-to-source project funding for individuals and communities in need across the globe.  To date, Carter has traveled to over 80 countries.  He earned an MA in International Development from George Washington University and a BA in Cultural Anthropology from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: Where is your comfort zone, and what do you do to break free of living in it?

Adam Carter: I broke out of my comfort zone when I graduated from college because I decided that instead of following the kind of pre-described path, of, you know, starting to interview and starting to work, and working towards a certain career goal and then retiring, whatever, that I just completely broke away from that, and that’s when I started to travel. So I think buying a one-way ticket to China is a great way for anybody out there to break out of their comfort zone. 

I’ve always respected those that have been able to do that on a professional level or on a personal level, and I’ve often had to reinvent myself or do that myself and then constantly thinking, okay, what can I do to challenge myself? What can I do to present a whole new set of stimuli or opportunities? And so as I continued to travel, I realized that I wanted to find a way to live abroad and continued to seek out a new comfort zone, but, at the same time, I had this job. I was a beer vendor in Chicago with the baseball stadiums, which was fantastic. I was able to go home every summer, make money. It was easy. You know, I’d go home, I could live with my mother, I could save my money, and then I could go travel and do my philanthropy work and everything, which was a great lifestyle and I wouldn’t trade it for anything, but it got to the point, where I realized, “Okay, I’ve been doing this for 17 years now,” and I could see the guys around me, some of which have been doing it for 30 years, and they’re in their 50s, or in their 60s, and they got the bad knees and bad back and they’re kind of humbling around there, and I realized, I don’t want to do that. I want to do more in my life than be a beer vendor. 

So I had to really step out of my comfort zone and walk away from this job. And you know, my cohorts assured me, they’re like, “all right, dude, you’ll be back next year. We’ll see you next year.” I said, “Well, never say never, but I feel like I’m making this move, I got to do it.” I knew there was only one way to do it, and that is, you know, walk away and just cold turkey. I mean, there are challenges inherent in that, as I was saying, it’s all of a sudden, you have to provide income and you have to realize, okay, I’m an adult and I have to provide for my future, cool, but I felt like I never would have taken the next step if I had this comfort zone to come back to. I think it’s really important to—not to be afraid of what’s out there and to embrace uncertainty, and to me, I think one of the lessons that I have learned personally and that I try to pass to people that I meet is to embrace uncertainty, because uncertainty is the one certainty in our life, and yet, it’s the one thing that often brings people down. And the more that I’ve—every challenge that comes my way, I try to embrace it and say, “well, it’s all in how I’m gonna deal with this and how I react to this, because we all know that if this uncertainty doesn’t happen, a month down the road, something else is gonna come up,” so the more I can kind of, you know, take everything with a smile and be like, here we go again. Let’s see what we got to do here. It’s really helped me just find my place in the world. So I’d say that being ready for the unexpected and having confidence in yourself and having confidence in the fact that, okay, things are gonna work out in the end. You know, we often stress about these little things, then we look back ten years later, and I’m like, “I can’t believe I got so stressed out like that because, look, it doesn’t even matter,” so I try to keep that mindset, which has really enriched me I think as a person.

Matt Ruby on Taking Comedy Skills Beyond Just Being Funny

In Chapter 5 of 19 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, standup comedian Matt Ruby talks to Erik Michielsen about honing his comedy voice and improving his skills over time.  Ruby notes that he has more work to do being vulnerable on stage and giving himself greater stakes to make a difference to the audience on stage.  He notes that his work is becoming less about just trying to be funny all the time and instead taking charge of what he wants to talk about and then layer the humor in that work. 

Matt Ruby is a standup comedian and comedy writer based in New York City.  He produces a video comic strip at Vooza.com, co-produces the weekly show "Hot Soup", co-hosts the monthly show "We're All Friends Here", and writes a comedy blog "Sandpaper Suit".  Ruby graduated from Northwestern University. 

Matt Ruby on How to Rebound From Rejection

In Chapter 6 of 19 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, standup comedian Matt Ruby answers "How Do You Deal With Rejection?"  Ruby, a self-appointed rejection expert, offers tips on how to get through those moments.  He learns along the way that putting up with the bad parts helps you get to the good parts.  He notes the importance of having a positive self-image that is grounded so you understand why you are getting rejected when trying to hit your goals. 

Matt Ruby is a standup comedian and comedy writer based in New York City.  He produces a video comic strip at Vooza.com, co-produces the weekly show "Hot Soup", co-hosts the monthly show "We're All Friends Here", and writes a comedy blog "Sandpaper Suit".  Ruby graduated from Northwestern University. 

Matt Ruby on Louis CK Style Influences on Making Better Comedy Videos

In Chapter 17 of 19 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, standup comedian Matt Ruby answers "What Has Louis CK Taught You About Making Better Comedy Videos for the Web?"  Ruby notes how having full control over the creative process allows Louis CK to communicate a more personal point of view.  He notes how Louis CK is able to get more personal in his work on his show "Louie."  Ruby notes how this is also true with Woody Allen films and how the director also keeps ownership over his personal vision.  Matt Ruby is a standup comedian and comedy writer based in New York City.  He co-produces the weekly show "Hot Soup", co-hosts the monthly show "We're All Friends Here", and manages a comedy blog "Sandpaper Suit".  Ruby graduated from Northwestern University. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What has Louis CK taught you about making better comedy videos for the web?

Matt Ruby: Well, I think the fact that he makes everything himself and, you know, like writes it, acts in it, edits it, directs it, and has full control over the process I think is, you know, I think you can sense it in the stuff that he makes, it feels more like something that comes from a single person’s viewpoint as opposed to so much of what’s on TV seems like it comes from a room filled with like 20 people that are all trying to agree which is cool but like a little bit more – makes stuff more homogenous and so I think, you know, part of what you see from — I’m thinking specifically the show Louis is that you can— if you do that, you can get stuff that’s sort of weirder, more personal or more—you know I think Woody Allen films have that too where it’s like, oh this really feels like it just came from one person, as opposed to like a committee decided that this was best. 

And I think it’s part of like what makes his stuff special and I think it’s something to—I don’t if I necessarily shoot for it in everything that I do but just something to keep in mind that is like, you know, oh, it’s okay to be cool or—not it’s okay to be cool—but it’s okay to be weird or to you know—sometimes his stuff will just get really absurd or just go off into some weird, you know, fantastical place and then come back to reality and, you know, sort of stuff that if you had a committee deciding on, they’d be like, no, that doesn’t make sense. Whereas like you can kind of indulge whatever your own personal vision for it is, and that’s what makes it unique to you and what you’re making is gonna be more unique.

When to Leave a Cruise Control Job and Change Careers

In Chapter 4 of 15 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business and personal coach Garren Katz answers "What Has Been Most Challenging About Changing Careers and Becoming a Coach?"  For Katz it is finances.  Working in sales for many years, Katz finds it easy to be on cruise control.  Moving into coaching, Katz starts from scratch not only from a financial perspective but also from a confidence perspective.  He talks about his experience building a new foundation in his new career. 

Garren Katz is a business and personal coach based in State College, PA and advises his national client base on small business management, entrepreneurship, relationships, and personal finances.  He is also an active angel investor in several business ventures.  He earned his BA from Western Michigan University. 

Garren Katz: Why to Invest Savings in Friends and Not Stocks

In Chapter 14 of 15 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business and personal coach Garren Katz answers "How Has Being Open to New Opportunities Shaped Your Investing Experience?"  Katz shares his progression from traditional investing - Roth IRA, SEP IRA, securities - in his 20s to investing in friends in his 30s.  He notes how more and more of his friends have been starting businesses and why he is choosing more and more to invest in these people rather than those traditional outlets. 

Garren Katz is a business and personal coach based in State College, PA and advises his national client base on small business management, entrepreneurship, relationships, and personal finances.  He is also an active angel investor in several business ventures.  He earned his BA from Western Michigan University. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How has being open to new opportunities shaped your investing experience?

Garren Katz: Wow, I would say when I was in my 20s, I invested very traditionally, Roth IRA, SEP-IRA, in securities and that type of thing. You know, we live in a time now where more than likely somebody you know, or a buddy or a friend or a family member, they’re up to something. And they’re up to a neat idea. And they probably could use some money to help them along.  

So I’ve really shifted some of my money that goes towards investments into a pool where I want to invest in people, especially friends, folks you know. It’s so much more rewarding on so many different levels, if I invest in a stock and that stock does well, that feeds my ego a bit, and it’s kind of a one-dimensional satisfaction, whereas putting money into a project that a friend’s working on is rewarding on a multitude of levels, and honestly, I would have to say I get more satisfaction out of investing in a friend or a friend’s project that might not float than I do out of a successful stock transaction because it’s—it creates a new element to our relationship. So I really, really enjoy investing in other people’s passions, what other people are up to, what other people are taking on, I love being a part of it.

Garren Katz on How to Get Started Investing in Small Business Ideas

In Chapter 15 of 15 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business and personal coach Garren Katz answers "How Are You Learning to Make Better Investment Decisions?"  Katz notes it is as much or more related to the growing abilities of those he invests in as it is his own skills.  He learns from experiences investing in others and benefits from the relationships he builds over time by investing in others' ideas.  He mentions the importance of approachability in investing, i.e. it does not take much money to help someone move an idea toward actualization.  Katz finds joy learning about others' ideas and offering to fund those investments.  He notes many ideas take a relatively small amount of money to support an idea and turn it into a business.  Katz sets an intention to tangibly support what others do while also looking for monetary gain. 

Garren Katz is a business and personal coach based in State College, PA and advises his national client base on small business management, entrepreneurship, relationships, and personal finances.  He is also an active angel investor in several business ventures.  He earned his BA from Western Michigan University. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How are you learning to make better investment decisions?

Garren Katz: I don’t necessarily know that I’m getting better in my investment decisions, I would say that the folks I invest in are getting better at executing on what they’re taking on. My investment decisions are working out more often than not but I wouldn’t say that’s directly related to my process, I’d say it’s more very fortunate to know folks that are up to some really, really neat things. An example would be investing in—I love to invest in ideas and they’re sitting all around us all the time, and so I actually had dinner with a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago and he was—he’s got what I think is a fantastic idea, I think it fits his personality perfectly, and I simply asked him. I said, boy, I said, I think you have a fantastic idea, I’d love to—if the opportunity presents itself, I would love to invest.

And it doesn’t have to be on a significant level, I think so many folks have this idea that if you’re going to invest, you have to have a tremendous amount of money. Well, there’s a lot of smaller projects out there. There’s a lot of little ideas that have the potential to be big, so a relatively small amount of money can get you into a place where you’re supporting that idea and I think that’s important to think about is what is your intention with an investment? You know, my intention—sure, on the backend, it’d be neat if it makes me some money, but my intention is truly to tangibly support what that person is up to. And I set that intention inside of myself at this point with any investment that I make, and that’s not a feeling I get when I buy a stock or something like that. I can only—At least for me, I’ve only been able to find that or have that feeling that my intention is support when I’m supporting a person or a small organization and what they’re up to.

Stacie Bloom on Breaking Out of a Comfort Zone

In Chapter 9 of 18 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, Neuroscience Institute Executive Director Stacie Grossman Bloom answers "Where is Your Comfort Zone and What Do You Do to Break Free of Living in It?"  Bloom notes she feels comfortable in a broad range of situations.  She learns over time to push through situations where she feels self-conscious or uncomfortable, such as speaking up at a meeting with someone very senior in her field.  

Stacie Grossman Bloom is Executive Director for the Neuroscience Institute at the NYU Langone Medical Center.  Previously, she was VP and Scientific Director at the New York Academy of Sciences (NYAS) and, before that, held editorial roles at the Journal of Clinical Investigation and Nature Medicine.  She earned her BA in chemistry and psychology from the University of Delaware, her PhD in Neurobiology and Cell Biology at Georgetown University and did post-doctoral training in Paul Greengard's Nobel Laboratory of Molecular & Cellular Neuroscience at Rockefeller University. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  Where is your comfort zone and what do you do to break free of living in it?

Stacie Grossman Bloom:  My comfort zone is pretty big. I would say that it takes a lot to get me out of my comfort zone. I think one of my best characteristics, one of the things that’s helped me the most is that I feel comfortable in a really broad range of situations. To break out of it, you know, I sort of force myself sometimes to do things that I’m not necessarily comfortable with. I’ll force myself to speak up at a meeting where, you know, there’s the head of the FDA sitting across the table from me. Those are situations that might make me feel self-conscious or uncomfortable. At work, you know, I very often have to have difficult conversations with people that are a little bit outside my comfort zone, I just make myself do it, I don’t usually hesitate very much, I’ll just usually go in guns a-blazing.

Stacie Bloom on Planning a STEM Career in Scientific Research

In Chapter 18 of 18 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, Neuroscience Institute Executive Director Stacie Grossman Bloom answers "What Opportunities Do You See to Better Encourage People to Careers in the Sciences?"  Bloom notes the push toward promoting STEM - science, technology, engineering, and math - careers.  She also notes the need for role models.  She then details the distinct challenges presented in scientific research careers, from the competitive education constraints to the financial constraints of National Institute of Health (NIH) early career salaries. 

Stacie Grossman Bloom is Executive Director for the Neuroscience Institute at the NYU Langone Medical Center.  Previously, she was VP and Scientific Director at the New York Academy of Sciences (NYAS) and, before that, held editorial roles at the Journal of Clinical Investigation and Nature Medicine.  She earned her BA in chemistry and psychology from the University of Delaware, her PhD in Neurobiology and Cell Biology at Georgetown University and did post-doctoral training in Paul Greengard's Nobel Laboratory of Molecular & Cellular Neuroscience at Rockefeller University.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  What opportunities do you see to better encourage people to pursue careers in the sciences? 

Stacie Grossman Bloom:  So, you know, in this country, I think there’s a big emphasis now on trying to improve STEM: science, technology, engineering, and mathematics education in younger people. I think that in order to pursue a career in research, there have to be role models and incentives, it’s not the same as law or finance or business where you know that you can go out and become a very successful person. A life in scientific research is unbelievably daunting and challenging, for a lot of reasons, I mean first of all, it’s hard. You go to school for a very long time, but when you get out of school, after 5 years, for doing a PhD, at that point, you’re generally about 30 years old, sometimes older, sometimes younger, you still have to go and do a postdoc, and postdoc salaries are really dictated by the NIH, by the National Institutes of Health. And those salaries are very hard to live on. 

So a starting postdoc, a 30-year-old person with a PhD might be making $42,000 a year, and you can see why many people maybe wouldn’t choose that path, but even if you do choose that path, and you are gonna live on $42,000 a year in a place like New York City, which—a lot of people do it. Obviously I did it. And at the time, not even making $42,000 a year, I think my salary was $33,000 a year. You know, you still have a very challenging future ahead of you if you’re on the track that where you’re pursuing the traditional scientific career, where you do a postdoc, maybe you do a second postdoc, and then you interview for an assistant professor, tenure track assistant professor job, and get on, you know, the path to a tenured full professor position, maybe even a chairman position. 

There’s a big drop off at the postdoc stage because making that transition to the next phase is really, really difficult because you have to be unbelievably successful scientifically, you have to publish your work. It would be great if you were funded independently as a researcher, and then those positions for assistant professors, associate professors, full professors, they just don’t come up very often. So it’s hard to be positively reinforced I think, and it’s hard to succeed. I mean it’s hard to compete with the giant pool of postdocs that are out there.

Erik Michielsen:  Where’s the inflection point, how do you make it easier?

Stacie Grossman Bloom:  I don’t think it’s going to become easier until the NIH changes their funding structure. The budget for the NIH has been basically flat for a while, which doesn’t give you a lot of incentive to go that route. I mean the success of your grand proposal is not very promising. I think there have to be big changes in the way that we support scientists and fund scientists in this country.