Simon Sinek on How to Improve Strategic Thinking

In Chapter 14 of 16 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, author and public speaker Simon Sinek answers "How Do You Make Strategic Thinking More Implementation Friendly?"  To Sinek it comes down to language and the importance of using words people understand.  When the language is simple, the directive becomes clear to everyone and can be more easily followed and implemented.  Simon Sinek teaches leaders and organizations how to inspire people.  His goal is to "inspire people to do the things that inspire them" and help others find fulfillment in their work.  Sinek is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action".  He works regularly with the United States Military, United States Congress, and many organizations, agencies and entrepreneurs.  Sinek is an adjunct professor at Columbia University and an adjunct staff member at the think tank RAND Corporation.  Sinek earned a BA in Cultural Anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen:  How do you make strategic thinking more implementation friendly?

Simon Sinek:  Language.  Strategic thinking can be more implementation friendly when you use words that you understand. It’s amazing to me how often we read strategies that are incomprehensible. To be the pre-eminent supplier, you know, we’re gonna—I mean, what—I mean these are things that you can’t do. Based on what metric? We wanna be the best? That’s your strategy? Like that’s not a strategy. That’s nothing. We wanna be the—we wanna be ranked number one. What—revenues, profit, quality, customer satisfaction, loyalty, what? It’s complete nonsense, you know? And so the more specific a strategy can be, the clearer the language can be, the more implementable it can be.

I’m a great believer that if you speak like a scientist, only scientists will understand you, but if you speak like a truck driver, both truck drivers and scientists will understand you. And the amazing thing is if you actually speak like a scientist, even a lot of the scientists don’t understand you. The point is use very simple terminology that’s somebody who’s not in your industry who doesn’t know your business would understand what you’re trying to do. And if that’s the basis of the language that you choose to use that anyone can understand what you’re attempting to do and if you started someone tomorrow, they would be able to take the reins and go because it’s so crystal clear. That’s the standard that we need to use inside our own organizations. When the language is clear, when the language is specific, when the language is simple, it’s easy. It’s easy to implement. Right? Off the races you go, you know?

Simon Sinek on Learning New Ways to Use Your Passions

In Chapter 15 of 16 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, author and public speaker Simon Sinek answers "How Are You Learning to Apply Your Passions in New Ways?"  Sinek first gets clear on what he wants to do - "inspire people to do the things that inspire them" - and then plays the game of finding new ways to do it.  From branching out skills into short-form and long-form writing to working in new industries such as military, politics and government, Sinek sees himself as a student of inspiration and leadership always looking to learn more and grow.  Simon Sinek teaches leaders and organizations how to inspire people.  Sinek is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action".  He works regularly with the United States Military, United States Congress, and many organizations, agencies and entrepreneurs.  Sinek is an adjunct professor at Columbia University and an adjunct staff member at the think tank RAND Corporation.  Sinek earned a BA in Cultural Anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen:  How are you learning to apply your passions in new ways?

Simon Sinek:  The goal of life is to know why you do what you do, right? To wake up every single day with a clear sense of purpose or cause or belief. And the fun of life is just find all the different ways to do that, right? So like I said, I know why I get out of bed in the morning. It’s to inspire people to do what inspires them, right? If we can do that together, we can change the world. Then I imagine this world, I imagine a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single day to inspire to go to work and come home every single day fulfilled by the work that they do. So to find new ways to do that is almost the game, you know, I can speak, I can write, I can teach, you know? I can write short form, I can long—I can write long form. It also makes me open to other people’s ideas. It makes me open to new industries. I never imagined I’d be working in even half the industries I’ve been exposed to. From government to politics to military, big business, you know, entrepreneurs and every industry you can imagine. And it’s always because it’s—I’m not saying, oh, I’m this kind of consultant, or I’m this kind of expert, I mean—anybody who calls themselves an expert, be very cautious, you know? Because if you think you’re an expert, it means you have—you don’t think you have anything else to learn, right? If anything, I’m a student of inspiration, I’m a student of leadership, I’m a student of these things. You know, I show up every day to want to learn more.

Simon Sinek on When Your Idea is Worth Turning Into a Book

In Chapter 16 of 16 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, author and public speaker Simon Sinek answers "How Do You Take Collections of Ideas and Turn Them Into Books?"  Sinek focuses less on the collection of ideas and more on how to take an idea, attack a problem and do so by taking your readers on a journey.  Simon Sinek teaches leaders and organizations how to inspire people.  His goal is to "inspire people to do the things that inspire them" and help others find fulfillment in their work.  Sinek is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action".  He works regularly with the United States Military, United States Congress, and many organizations, agencies and entrepreneurs.  Sinek is an adjunct professor at Columbia University and an adjunct staff member at the think tank RAND Corporation.  Sinek earned a BA in Cultural Anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen:  How do you take collections of ideas and turn them into books?

Simon Sinek:  Considering that most books are probably only have enough content in them to be sort of articles, you know, to take a collection of ideas and turn them into a book, you know, an idea to be a book has to be able to advance. In other words, it has to start somewhere and go somewhere. Right? And I think a lot of books that are written have an idea that’s—it may be a really good idea but the whole book is simply case studies that prove the same idea, over and over and over again, right? And a book like in a work of fiction is a story. It has a beginning, it has a middle, and it has an end. You know, there’s a sort of an Aristotelian story arc, you know, where there’s some sort of here’s the world there is something is introduced that makes everything go wrong, you know there’s some sort of resolution and then here’s the—here’s how it looks. There’s conflict, right? So I think a collection of ideas that belong in a book, it addresses a very real problem. Here’s the way the world is. There’s a serious problem with this. Here’s the introduction of something that can help us and here’s what we could do to advance that. And there’s an arc. There’s something that holds your interest throughout the whole thing as opposed to just pick a page, start anywhere, and it’s more of the same. You should feel like you’ve missed the beginning if you start in the middle, you know? So yeah, I mean, a collection of ideas, I wouldn’t call it a collection of ideas, I’d call it, you know, a journey. That—and it doesn’t even have to be a complete journey, it has to be a journey. It has to start somewhere, and it has to go somewhere, even if it’s not a final destination.

Simon Sinek on Why Internet Friends Do Not Replace Human Relationships

In Chapter 20 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares why human, physical interaction creates deeper, more meaningful relationships than Internet communication. Sinek notes that sheer physicality limits the Internet and its communication tools - Facebook, Twitter, blogs - ability to develop lasting, trusted bonds. He finds the Internet great at three things: one, connecting people; two, finding and sharing information faster; and three, increasing transaction speed. The Internet does not however develop the human bonds and the associated trust, sharing, emotion and interaction that come with them.

Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: How has social media culture shifted your view on relationships?

Simon Sinek: There was a time not long ago, you know, where relationships meant something different than they mean now. There was a time where – for example – you know, that a desktop meant something horizontal, and today a desktop means something vertical, right? I mean, that’s how technology has changed the definition of language. Um, when you say desktop, people think computer. 

You know, they don’t think a desktop, with a blotter and folders and things, that we actually now have on computers as well. Technology has also changed the definitions of human relationships. A friend is not somebody who you check their status, you know, your network is not on LinkedIn, a conversation doesn’t happen on Twitter and a dialogue doesn’t happen on your blog, you know? 

There’s a human experience, you know this, is an conversation, you know, this – it has reactions and advancing ideas, and it’s not just people taking turns to speak, which is what happens online. The Internet is incredibly, fantastic and valuable for three things. One, for connecting people. Amazing, amazing, right? Connecting people … for access to information, brilliant, right? And sharing information – access and sharing information, and for speeding transactions, to increase the speed of transactions. 

And it’s the Internet that has allowed people to build small business, because you can increase the span of transactions, you can connect to more people, etcetera. Find people from your child hood, whatever, Wikipedia - all this stuff, wonderful, wonderful. But the Internet is not great at developing real deep human bonds, where deep, deep, mutual trust exists. And one of the reasons is simple, is human bonds are human, and they require this, human physical interaction. You have to be able to look someone in the eye before you’re willing to trust them, right? 

This is why the videoconference will never replace the business trip. Because you can’t get a good read on somebody over videoconference. And even the blogosphere, you know, who, who, talks about that the Internet solves all problems, every year they descend on Vegas for Blogworld. Why couldn’t they just have their convention online? Why couldn’t they just all turn on their webcams and have a convention? They can do that, you know? 

No, it’s because nothing beats human interaction. And the amount you learn and the connections you make and the relationships you build, physically, are not only more efficient but deeper. And the Internet has yet to find a way that can reproduce them. You know, if others can say that it can, I’m open to it, but human relationships are in fact human. Um, and so, you know let us use the Internet for all that it gives us, and all its value, but let us not believe that it can replace things that, that are hard to replace. 

Simon Sinek on Why to Differentiate Friends From Acquaintances

In Chapter 19 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares the importance of differentiating friends from acquaintances. Sinek compares acquaintances sharing common interests, for example Facebook friends, from actual friends. When discussing a mutual connection, Sinek has learned to ask sharper questions to differentiate between the two to receive better context on an introduction or relationship. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: Why is it important to differentiate between friendships and acquaintances? 

Simon Sinek: Oh, I went through this recently. So I realized recently that I use the word friend too loosely. “Yeah, I’m friends with him … yeah, yeah, he’s a friend of mine.” Right? And the reality is I call a lot of people friends who aren’t my friend. And you know, I have 2500 or 2300, who knows, “friends” on Facebook. They’re not my friends. [Erik laughs] They’re nice people, I like them, I think – if I met them, I don’t know I haven’t met most of them – but we clearly share common interests which is why we became friends on Facebook and that’s good, but they’re not my friends. 

My friends are people who, if I’m in a time of need they will be there for me no matter what. My friends are people who I can be weak around. My friends are people who I can cry around and they won’t think any less of me. My friends are the people who, when they need something, I help them because I want to, not because I think they want something from me, you know? My friends are people that I trust implicitly with all my secrets; who know everything about me and I’m just fine with that. 

And I don’t need them to sign confidentiality agreements no matter what I tell them, show them or share with them. Those are my friends, where the trust is deep and implicit, and those people are really few. And I realize, you know, that I think we use the term a little to loosely in society where friends are people that we have on Facebook, and um, we stopped using the word acquaintances. We used to use the word acquaintance much more … “yeah he’s an acquaintance of mine.” 

I haven’t referred to anybody as an acquaintance in years. Everybody’s a friend. And so I’ve actually started to temper now, you know, how I talk about it. People say, “Do you know him?” Like … “I’m friendly with him,” I’ll say, or “I’m developing a friendship with him,” or “I know him,” or, “we’ve met.” And I realize that the number of people who I truly want to call friends are actually a very small group, and that’s a good thing. The opposite is I hear people say to me, “Oh yeah, I’m friend with him,” and then you realize that they met once over coffee and there’s no friendship there, you know? 

I’ve had that happen where somebody goes “Oh I know him” and it happens to be somebody I know too and I go “Oh, da-da-da-da-duh” and they’re like, “oh, uh, no.” And you realize they were lying, or just, they were over using the word friend. Uh, so yeah I think friends are sacred, and it is dismissive or irresponsible of the value of those friendships to include massive amounts of people who don’t live on the same pedestal as your real friends.

Simon Sinek on How Friendships Differ from Work Relationships and Acquaintances

In Chapter 18 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek explains the difference between professional relationships, acquaintances, and friendships. What makes friendships hard to define, Sinek notes, is that the bond requires a mutual feeling, connection, and human experience. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: How do you discern between friendships, professional relationships and acquaintances?

Simon Sinek: Professional relationships are people I do business with, even if I really, really, like them and enjoy spending time with them. I … we all have personal, professional relationships – even ones we really like – that the day we stop doing business, we don’t really talk to them much anymore, you know? We still like them, it’s not that we don’t – it’s nothing bad happened it’s just we did business together. That was it. 

And I’ve had many of those; people who pretend that we’re developing friendships and they talk – and then we don’t do business and you never hear from them. Those are professional relationships. And you have good ones, you have bad ones, you have close ones you have distant ones, right? Then there are the acquaintances, who really are on the periphery, you know? “I’m acquainted with them … I’ve heard of them … I’ve met them, I’ve shaken their hand… “can’t tell you much about them, can’t tell you if you should or shouldn’t do business with them.” “They seem nice …” “I can make an introduction for you…” “I have a phone number, I know their email,” that’s an acquaintance. 

A friendship – and the reason it’s hard to define – is at the end of the day, a friendship is a feeling. You know, a friend is a human – a friendship is a human experience. It’s between two human beings. And you have, you have friendship when you both feel it. It’s not a para-social relationship, which is what celebrities experience, where we feel we know them. But that’s – a para-social relationship is when one party knows more about the other than they know about you. 

It’s when both people have the same feeling that there’s a real friendship. One person can’t have it – it’s like love. You know? You both have to be in it, otherwise one of you is down on your knee on the Jerry Springer show proposing and the other is like, “dude, no.” [Erik laughs] You know? It’s like you both need to feel it in order for it to be love. “But I love you.” But, no. “I don’t love you, how can you love me?” It’s gotta be mutual, it’s a feeling and that’s why it’s hard, because it requires two people at least.

Simon Sinek on What Parents' 40th Anniversary Teaches About Lasting Relationships

In Chapter 17 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares what his parents, married 40 years, have taught him about building successful relationships. Sinek reflects on his college days and the anticipation he had for school breaks and family visits. Sinek notes valuable relationships require years investment, nursing and cultivation. Ultimately, relationships will save your life, both knowing you have that support in trying times and actually having the unquestionable support in trying times. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: So speaking of longevity, your parents recently celebrated their 40th year anniversary.

Simon Sinek: Yes, they did.

Erik Michielsen: What have they taught you about building lasting relationships?

Simon Sinek: My parents asked me to say a few words and I didn’t prepare anything, and so there I had to say, you know, talk about forty years of marriage and I was like, “uh oh” … and so I told a story, and it was a true story. Which is, I never appreciated my parents’ marriage until I got to college. And I’m 18 years old, 18 years, I never, never appreciated it. And that was already 21 years of marriage or something, right? 

And what I started to learn when I got to college was during the holidays. There were people who made every effort not to go home, because they didn’t like their families, right? They would go to a friend’s house, or plan a vacation, but they did not want to go home. And I remember loving going to school – like when I was at home I loved leaving for school – but when I was in school I loved coming home. And it was then that I realized what I had, and this thing that I took for granted. And then you also take stock, my parents have been together for 40 years, the number of my friends whose parents are divorced is astronomical. 

And I … you start to realize that so many of my friends at college either had broken homes, or – and/or – even if their parents were together, they didn’t want to go home. So, you’re left with a very small percentage, and so, not taking these things for granted, you know? Valuable relationships, close relationships – and they don’t have to be marriages … friendships, they’re pretty damn important. And you can’t make them over night; they take years to get good. You know? A little bit like fine wine, and they require nursing, you gotta re-cork ‘em and you gotta turn ‘em. And we all know that relationships take work, and I got all that, but just to understand and acknowledge that those close relationships that we have will save your life. 

And I don’t just mean somebody who will risk their life for yours, although that may happen, but that in your time of need, it’s the knowledge that someone will be there for you that is more important than anything else. A friend is not somebody where it’s equal and reciprocal all the time. “Well I did three things for you, you have to do three things for me.” You could do a hundred things for somebody and they could do nothing for you, but for the fact that you walk around with the knowledge that the moment you need something they’ll be there without question, that’s not to be taken for granted.

Simon Sinek on When to Risk Something You Cannot Afford to Lose

In Chapter 16 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares why risk sharing is so important to a successful partnership. First, Simon differentiates between a vendor and a partner. He then notes a partnership - whether it be a personal relationship, a marriage, or a business relationship - requires risk. He offers that if you are starting something new, to do so in a way where all partners invest in something they cannot afford to lose, whether it be time, energy, financial, or beliefs. The more people willing to share in that risk allows for greater potential in the endeavor. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: Why is risk-sharing so important to a successful partnership?

Simon Sinek: People who don’t put skin in the game, aren’t taking risks. Um, you know, when somebody, refuses to put skin in the game but wants a reward, that’s not a partnership, that’s a vendor. You know, somebody who says, “We want to be your partner, now pay us,” that’s fine; that’s a vendor relationship, that’s not a partnership. Partnerships require shared risk; that is what a partnership means. And that could be a personal relationship, a marriage or, more importantly, a business relationship. Business relationships require risk. 

It’s one of the old, you know, small business maxims, which is “never go into business with a millionaire” because the reason is, cause they’re not hungry, you know? You want to go into business with somebody who if they don’t work hard, it’s all over. And that’s not to say you shouldn’t accept money from millionaires, that’s fine, but risk –it’s the investing proverb, which is never invest more money than you can afford to lose, but if you’re gonna start something entirely new, you want everybody to invest in something that they can’t afford to lose. 

You gotta make this work, whether it’s financial, or time, or energy, or belief, or the problem you’re trying to solve … “We have to solve this problem, otherwise bad things happen,” or, we can make the world a better place.” I think, you know, and the more people who are willing to share in that risk, the results can only be good. If only one person is only  is willing to take a risk, then the other people will leave him high and dry. There’s no reason to go the extra mile, right?

Simon Sinek on How Glassblowing Class Teaches Teamwork

In Chapter 15 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek takes his team to a glassblowing class and learns about collaboration and project ownership. The exercise teaches the team the importance of shared ownership and responsibility. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: What’d you learn when you took your team to the glassblowing class?

Simon Sinek: Well for one thing we learned teamwork, big time, that you cannot produce a piece of glass in a glassblowing class without somebody else. You must work with somebody else. And so we were producing these pieces – these vases and these wonderful things – and the question is who do they belong to? Is it the person who was doing the physical blowing? Is it the person who was doing the turning? Is it the person who did the dipping? Who does the piece belong to? 

Now, you could arbitrarily say, the person who dips, it’s their piece. But in reality, everything you’re producing belongs to two people, or at least two people. And that’s a pretty amazing thing. So, you know, when you’re working at work, who does your work belong to? Does it belong to you, or does it belong to the collective? And so, we learned that from our glassblowing, it was really great. Because we were divvying up the stuff it was like, well, “Who? I kind of worked on this a little more than you…” It was very hard to divvy this stuff up, because we all owned it.

Simon Sinek on Why Small Business Owners Should Study the Arts

In Chapter 14 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares why small business owners benefit by studying the arts. He finds learning different problem-solving approaches outside one's core discipline opens the mind, in particular the subconscious mind, to consider new ways of approaching a situation. Sinek offers artistic expression around line, color, form, posture, and other ways of expression beyond language that can benefit a small business owner. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: Why should small business owners get involved in the arts?

Simon Sinek: I think that more businessmen should learn about the arts. I think a small business, especially, should study the arts. I remember a long time ago when I had a job, I had a small team, and I called a group meeting and they didn’t know what it was for. And they all showed up with their pencils and their notebooks and I said, “Okay, we’re going to a little offsite” and I took them to a gallery.

And the reason I think the arts are valuable, is, again it’s the way the brain works, you know? Have you ever noticed that you have all your good ideas, not when you’re sitting in a brainstorming session? Because your rational brain can only access about two feet of information around you. Where your subconscious brain can access the equivalent of ninety – something like, what is it? – 11 acres of information around you. In other words, every lesson or every experience you’ve had gets put in there. And it controls behavior and decision-making, just not language. And so that’s why we say, “this is a gut decision, it just feels right.”

Or it’s also the reason these decisions happen in bed, in the shower, when you go for a run, but not in the brainstorming session. The problems have been posed, the questions have been posed, but then your brain continues to think about them, it continues to try and solve them – accessing all this other information, just not rationally, and so [Snaps Fingers] these ideas seem to show up from nowhere. It’s like, do you ever leave the house, and you feel like you’ve forgotten something? And you’re like “what did I forget? What did I forget?” It’s not rational it’s that subconscious, and you leave the house and you’re like [snaps] my sunglasses. And it’s never wrong! When you get the feeling that you’ve forgotten something, it’s never – in other words, your subconscious knows.

And so the more you can do to fill that subconscious with information that has nothing to do with anything, apparently, the more I think it benefits you in the times when you need to actually apply that information. And I think the greatest opportunity for that is in the arts, because you’re not thinking about it, you’re not like “well I’ll read this book and it’s somewhat related to my work.”

No, go read things that have nothing to do with your work. Go watch performances, go see artists, go see the way other people solve problems in a way that have nothing to do with you. And you will not see the connection, and there is none. Or is there? There are things that you can learn outside of your own discipline that will significantly contribute to the problems you’re solving at work. You only know what you know, you don’t know what you don’t know, but more importantly, the arts seek to understand our world in a way that the rest of us don’t, you know, it accesses a language that the rest of us don’t use. You and I are communicating with English, right? This is the language we’re using. You talk to a painter or dancer, you know? They may lack the facility that you and I have right now. In other words, they’re uncomfortable speaking. But a great painter has the ability to express themselves in color, and in line or in form, that we can learn a lot about them through this new language. Or a dancer has the ability to you know, to present themselves and use their body as this, as language to share what they feel, right? And some of us have the ability to do it in language, but some of us don’t.

And I think to engage with the arts, to understand a new way of expression or understanding the world significantly enhances your ability to solve problems back at work. I’m a firm believer that all small business, you know, all the owners – if not everybody – should go take classes. Go take a glass blowing class, go take a ceramics class, go take a ballet class, go take a piano lesson, go take a painting class, it doesn’t matter. Drawing … whatever tickles your fancy. Because you will learn things in those classes that will significantly contribute to your understanding of how you present to the world. I took a ballet class with a couple of friends of mine, and I learned about presence and posture, and I can tell you, as a speaker, guess where I found that? Not from a speakers’ bureau, you know?

Simon Sinek on Why Greatness Starts and Ends With Passion

In Chapter 13 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares what performing artists have taught him about preparation, process, and passion. Sinek finds passion matters on the bookends. It starts things. It is the process, or preparation, where people differentiate, develop, and ascend as individuals and as work - or art - creators. This process is where individuals accept and embrace technical capacity and open themselves to failure and the willingness to learn from and iterate upon it. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: What has your passion for the performing arts taught you about the power of preparation?

Simon Sinek: There is something magical about somebody, an artist, who is willing to put himself out there, to share with am audience, to share with the world, something that they have created. And there is the very high possibility of failure, that it won’t be good. And if any component doesn’t work it can affect the thing as a whole. Um, preparation is interesting. I’m a great believer in process, to a degree. 

Which is – you have to be good at what you’re doing, and you have to understand your own discipline and have a technical grounding, but that’s not where it ends. I think where passion matters is on the bookends. You know, people start things because they’re passionate, you know? “I was passionate about this so I decided to start my own business,” or, “I was passionate about this so I started to take classes.” Passion’s what gets things started. 

And then it’s that process, it’s that preparation that you become understanding of, where it becomes intellectualized, that thing that you like, and that’s where I think most people fall down. “Oh my goodness there’s a lot of work here,” you know? So that usually ends that “passion” pretty quickly, or they get stuck in there, where it becomes only learning and only thinking. And really, there’s a point at which you have to say, “okay, you know what? I know how to do this; I’m good at this. I have to trust that I’m good at this, I have to trust the training and now I’m gonna go back to that passion again.” 

And those are the few who are able to truly catapult themselves, or their work, to this new level where we say it’s great, not just good. Because they’ve allowed themselves to now accept the technical capacity and leave themselves open to the potential for making mistakes again. Children have passion and they’re beautiful to watch, and they make a total mess. And these few here, they kind of have a childish way about them, they kind of act like children in some way, where it’s a little bit reckless abandon but for the fact that they have training and grounding and preparation. And I think those – that’s a beautiful thing to pursue. It’s a hard thing to do, because now that you’re technically based and you have an understanding, are you willing to fail? Yes here, because you don’t know anything [taps table] and yes here if you can be great.

Simon Sinek on What the Military Teaches About the Importance of Planning

In Chapter 12 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares what working with the military, including the Air Force, has taught him about planning. Specifically, Sinek learns planning is much more valuable as a process than as an event. He paraphrases President Dwight Eisenhower's statement "In preparation for battle, I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." Sinek learns plans too often go wrong but the process of planning creates more responsive reaction and problem solving in the face of adversity and uncertainty. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: What have you learned about planning from the military?

Simon Sinek: One of the things that I think is very interesting, the difference between at least the Air Force, and -- and the military at large – and the private sector, is “planning” quote, un-quote, is something that happens in businesses either once a year – it’s either you know, your annual strategic whatever -- or when something goes wrong. We have to have planning sessions. And that’s pretty much the only time there’s planning, right? In reaction to something, or this prescribed annual event.

In the military, and in the Air Force, they’re constantly, constantly, constantly planning. And they will produce thousands of plans a year of which only maybe a few hundred will get implemented. And, you know, Dwight Eisenhower said a long time ago – and I never understood what he meant until recently – when he said, “planning is everything; the plan is nothing.” And basically what that means is the plan is irrelevant the minute you try to implement it because your competition, the enemy, whoever it is, they’re not following your plan, you know? And your plan will go wrong almost as soon as it’s implemented.

And it’s this constant process of planning. That it’s not the plan, per se, but it’s the process of planning, that if something does go wrong, you can react to it. One of the interesting practical applications for this was the housing crisis, the economic crisis. Which was, the actuaries had figured out that there was a 99 percent chance of success for this mortgage-backed security thing. And they thought, “oh my god we’re all gonna get rich, let’s do this thing” and they did, and we all know exactly what happened. The problem is there was no plan for that one percent that happened, which is the housing market collapsed. There was no plan ever developed or thought about if the one percent were to happen.

In the military, I can promise you, they would have thought about that opportunity, if that – “what would … how would we react if that happens?” Um, and panic is what ensued and nobody knew the answer, and things collapsed, and banks collapsed, and people lost money because there was no plan. And now the planning began and we’re still digging ourselves out of the hole, only because planning was an event and not a process.

Simon Sinek on How Civilian Finds Fulfillment Working For Military

In Chapter 11 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares how he has found lasting fulfillment working with the United States government and military. Interfacing with committed individuals dedicated to defending, protecting, and serving the country offers Sinek a personal impression that changes his life. He recounts a story engaging a wounded warrior at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany and offering a "Token of Inspiration". Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: What do you find most fulfilling about working with military and government to serve your country?

Simon Sinek: Look, these are people who show up to work, and who decided to do that for a living, decided to do that with their lives, not to get rich. When I get to speak to, or work with the military, or those in government, not a single person there showed up to get rich. None of them, zero. Whether they become disillusioned or not within their careers is a different story, but they showed up with a desire to serve their country. And to be able to give them anything that helps them be better at their jobs, that helps them be better at protecting the country or helping develop better healthcare, it doesn’t matter, is perhaps the most fulfilling work I do. If all I did was get to work with government and military for the rest of my life I would be extremely happy. It’s an amazing feeling to do something that matters. 

Erik Michielsen: When was the first time you felt that way?

Simon Sinek: The first time I felt that way … I got to go to the Pentagon for the first time a few years ago. And just walking the halls, you’re pretty struck by it, you know? And I think D.C. as a town does that as well, but they also deal in power. But when you go, when you walk the halls of the Pentagon and you all these people walking around in various uniforms who have committed their lives to a life of service, it’s pretty humbling, it’s pretty humbling. 

Erik Michielsen: Last year, you had a chance to speak to a large group in Germany. Tell me more about that.

Simon Sinek: Last year, I got to visit Ramstein Air Force base, Spangdahlem Air Force base and Aviano Air Force base in Italy. And over the course of my week with them, I spoke to thousands of troops. One room alone was close to a thousand. It was amazing. But perhaps the most powerful and moving experience I had was at Ramstein. One of the things that Ramstein serves as is the sort of stopping point to the Middle East. Most of the troops and material going to Afghanistan or Iraq or coming back go through Ramstein. 

So it’s a pretty busy, big base.  And one of the missions is to return home the wounded warriors who are brought to Germany for treatment in the hospitals there, and when they can come home they will bring those wounded warriors home. And part of my tour was to go through the facility where they – sort of the weigh station as they sort of were taken out to the plane – and so we were taken around there and shown the facility. And then we went out onto the flight line where we saw a C17, which is a big Air Force cargo plane configured to bring wounded warriors home. You know they had bunks and they had medical equipment in there, and they loaded up say about 15 to 20 wounded warriors – some who were ambulatory and some were carried on stretchers. 

My job was to stand there and observe, that was my job. And I couldn’t, it was incredibly powerful, and I stepped forward without asking permission and went to each one of them and said the exact same thing. I said, “I’m visiting from back home, I’m a civilian, and I just want to say thank you for what you do for us.” And I paid them a token of inspiration, which are these tokens I carry with me. And I paid each of them and I said the exact same thing to each of them: “My name is Simon, I’m a civilian from back home and I just want to say thank you to you guys for what you do for us” and I pay them a token. 

And there was this one young guy who was lying on a stretcher, who was under a blanket strapped in. He had a tube hanging out of every orifice, oxygen over his mouth, and I turned to him and he sort of looked over to me from his stretcher, and I said the same thing, “My name is Simon, I’m a civilian, I’m from back home and I just wanted to pay you this token of inspiration to say thank you to you for what you do for us.” And I held up the token and I said, “I’ll give it to somebody else to hold for you for when you get back home.” Because clearly he was under this blanket in this stretcher all strapped in, and a hand came out of the side of this blanket, right? And I put the token in his hand, right? And he grips it tight, right? And puts his hand back in the blanket. And we never spoke a word, and of course I was, you know, bawling. 

And I learned something that day, I mean, that day changed me.  You know? I don’t have much of a right to complain about my bad days, you know? And even when I was there that week, I remember the jet lag hit me very hard and I’d be falling asleep at dinners and they kept asking me to do more and more and more stuff. And the old me would have said, “you know I’m gonna decline I have to take a rest.” And, I said yes to absolutely everything and pushed my way through all of it. And you know, you meet these young men and women who are willing to put themselves in harm’s way for no other reason than they believe in something bigger than themselves, and you get to meet them. It’s, uh, it changes you. It changes you.

Simon Sinek on How Childhood Influences Cultural Anthropology Research Career

In Chapter 10 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares how his childhood and education have shaped his approach to cultural anthropology, ethnography, and research. Sinek believes research should be done away from focus groups and in the field, especially in uncomfortable environments. His curiosity turns discomfort into a motivating factor he uses to better understand his subjects. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: How has your anthropology background proven helpful working in unfamiliar environments, including with the United States military?

Simon Sinek: Being trained as an ethnographer being trained and sort of having this cultural anthropology background, significantly changes the way of how I do my work, or being in strange or different situations. This is why I’m against focus groups. I think the concept of a focus group is laughable. That you bring people in to a sterile research environment, so that the researcher can be comfortable and safe and happy, but the respondents – the people who you want to be open and honest – are the ones who are uncomfortable and on-edge, that’s backwards to me. 

It’s the responsibility of the researcher to go to the respondents. It’s the responsibility of the researcher to go into the environment, into the homes, into the societies, into the buildings, into the offices of the people that they want to study and understand. It’s the responsibility of the researcher to deal with the discomfort, rather than forcing the respondent to be uncomfortable. 

So that’s how I was raised, both academically, and also that’s how I was actually raised. I lived all over the world. As a kid, we traveled around a lot, and so I will always go to somebody if I’m interested in them, and I believe they are the ones who should be comfortable and I’m the one who should be uncomfortable. That’s correct, because that way you get the best answers. And so, because that’s how I’ve always done things, I have no problem going to very unfamiliar environments. For me it’s an object of curiosity, if I’m uncomfortable I want to understand what’s making me uncomfortable and I think that’s kind of cool.

Simon Sinek on What Makes the United States Air Force So Innovative

In Chapter 9 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares what he has learned about open-mindedness and innovation by working with the United States Air Force (USAF). Sinek finds the USAF has created a culture of innovation by encouraging its people to be open-minded thinkers constantly seeking to improve how things work. This openness allows the Air Force to look at different perspectives, including outsider opinions from individuals such as Sinek. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: What has working with the Air Force taught you about open-mindedness?

Simon Sinek: They are perhaps the most innovative organization on the planet. If you think about most big corporations – corporations who have significantly contributed to the innovations in our society – most of that have actually contributed one, at best two, things.  Microsoft: Windows, that changed the world. The other stuff? Good stuff … World changing? Wouldn’t go that far. You know? One. One. Apple: Maybe two things in there, you know? The graphic user interface, they didn’t really invent it but they perfected it, you know? So most corporations who develop something big do one thing. Now let’s look at the Air Force. The reason that we have commercial flight came out of military, you know? I mean the mil - the Air Force, or the Army air corps really propelled that industry. Anti-lock breaks, GPS, you know, all of this stuff … Satellite communications … Cell phones, hello?

And all of this stuff came out of the Air Force. And one of the reasons they are so innovative is that they have open minds. They’re constantly looking for better ways to do things, you know? Where they say that every Marine is a rifleman, absolutely every airman is an innovator. That’s just the way they’re wired. And because of that, they are so curious, and so interested in what outsiders have to say. The other armed forces – and most corporations, let’s be honest – they’re much harder to get in, you know? They like to protect themselves, and it’s hard to get in the door. The Air Force, they’re constantly looking, they’re constantly open, they’re constantly curious. It’s not an accident that they found me, because here I am a guy with unusual perspective and they were interested in it. If you want to find new and better ways of doing things, you have to look to other people, ask other people and just get outside opinions. It just goes with the territory.

Simon Sinek on How to Avoid Useless Innovation and Solve Human Problems

In Chapter 8 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares his favorite definition of innovation - the application of technology to solve human problems. He highlights several product advancements that do not answer human problems, causing a breakdown in innovation thinking. He uses a toaster as an example of useful innovation that meets his criteria: the application of technology to solve human problems. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: How do you define innovation?

Simon Sinek: Well, I mean a definition I like is the application of technology to solve human problems. I know that not all innovation is about technology. I know that, but I like that, if we have a very broad definition of innovation.

Erik Michielsen: Why does that register so well with you?

Simon Sinek: Because the important part, to me, is the solving of human problems. Just because we can do something doesn’t mean we should do something. And I think, especially in the technology world, we become obsessed with the fact that we can, not that we should. And we call “innovation” where it’s really nonsense. I mean for example, do you remember when if you wanted to watch – if you needed a projector – you used to pull the string down to get the screen down.

Like, what problem were they solving getting rid of the string? You know now everything has a button. And by the way, those buttons and those motors break all the time. I don’t ever recall that string being a problem. And yet we feel the need because we can put motors on buttons on things, that we should put a motor and button on that. It’s like, you look at a Toyota Prius, and everything is touch screen. So if you’re following the GPS and your phone rings, you lose the GPS! Or, if you want to change the temperature, you know, or if you wanna – you have to take four screens – what happened with knobs and buttons? Like, what’s wrong with turning up your volume like this, for your radio? Like, what human problem are we solving? The answer is we’re not solving any human problems. That’s the problem with that kind of technology. It’s pointless.

One of the best pieces of innovation I’ve seen lately is my toaster, which is – and I bought my toaster specifically for this feature – which is, you push a toaster down to make it toast and then it pops up. In my toaster, you can lift the button up and it lifts the toast out so you don’t have to go picking it out with a fork or a knife. That’s innovation! That’s the application of some sort of technology, or engineering in this case, to solve a human problem. And, uh, I think just because we can do things, whether engineers or technologists, or on the Internet, doesn’t mean that we necessarily should. And if you have the capacity to do something big make sure you’re solving a real problem that exists, not something that doesn’t. [Erik laughs] I have more respect for my toaster than I do a Toyota Prius.

Simon Sinek on Why to Consider Outsider Opinions When Planning Strategy

In Chapter 7 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares why he feels outsider opinions add value to strategic planning efforts. Sinek finds his own ideas by comparing and contrasting things that do not connect across government, politics, military, big business, small business, and non-profit. The experience takeaways Sinek gathers working across these industries allows him to learn and hone his own style of outsider expertise he then applies on client projects such as RAND Corporation. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: Why is it important to consider outsider opinions when planning strategy?

Simon Sinek: Oh, I mean working as an outsider or working with an outsider, they have perspective that you don’t have. I don’t think this is a revelation, you know I get to work with the Rand Corporation, which is the largest think tank in the world … one of the most prestigious think tanks in the world. And, you know I don’t have half, or even a quarter or even an eighth of the credentials of some of the people who work at Rand or who I work with. The thing they value from me – and they say this to me – is I have a perspective unlike theirs, and I raise questions and I see things that they can’t see. That they don’t see. And that is the value of an outsider. 

Erik Michielsen: Did your perception of that kind of outsider influence change at all once you started working with Rand or has that been something that’s always been constant in all of your work? 

Simon Sinek: I’m a great believer of looking outside; I mean all of my ideas come from comparing and contrasting things that don’t connect. I mean, the fact that I get to work in government and politics and military and big business and small business and non-profit … I learn something over here that I realize could solve a problem over here. And it is that breadth, that broad view, that I specifically take that specifically contributes to what I’m able to bring to all the others. And it’s amazing because they think that I’m an expert in their industry, and the answer is I actually learned it from somebody else. And that happens all the time.

Simon Sinek on Why to Wait Before Making an Emotional Decision

In Chapter 6 of 20 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, author and leadership expert Simon Sinek shares how he manages his emotions when making decisions. In short, Sinek takes a pause to temper a potential emotional reaction. He finds asking "what good will come of this?" helps him understand where and when to respond. Simon Sinek is a trained ethnographer who applies his curiosity around why people do what they do to teach leaders and companies how to inspire people. He is the author of "Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action". Sinek holds a BA degree in cultural anthropology from Brandeis University.

Transcript

Erik Michielsen: Where do you find balance between being overly emotional and removing emotion entirely when making a decision?

Simon Sinek: We all make decisions based on an emotional reaction, not necessarily using the emotion of our gut, you know? It’s sort of the naughty step, as Nanny Jo, Super Nanny Jo Fraust, you know, developed, I think has great value to us as adults as well, to just to sort of take a break and cool off, you know, when somebody sends you a rude email, don’t reply back immediately. Wait, and 99 times out of 100 you’ll go back and read it later, you’ll be like “yeah, whatever.” But, you won’t get all flustered. Or write the response but don’t hit send, you know, if you want to have the venting, you know, don’t hit send and maybe come back to it later. 

And I’m a great believer in tempering that emotional reaction.  I play a little game with myself – which is, before I make a decision, I ask myself um, “what good will come of this?” because I only want to make decisions where good will come of my decisions, right? And so you realize so often – I got an email once from somebody who, who wanted something from me, and I’d been trying to reach out to them for months for a small favor and I got nothing, I got a cold shoulder, and now all of a sudden, “wishing you well, I heard you had a book come out, congratulations… oh and by the way.” You know? 

And so of course, how do I reply? You know, I could be like “how dare you?” You know? So I ask myself, “What good will come of this?” And the answer was, if I send something mean, what good will come of that? Nothing, I’ll just inflame something. If I send something nice, what good will come of it? Nothing there either, because it’s artificial, you know, I’m not being genuine. And so I ended up sending nothing at all. I couldn’t make a decision; I couldn’t do something where something good will happen, so I did nothing. So I – with as many decisions as I can I ask myself “what good will come of this?” before I make the decision, because if my decisions can’t make good, then I shouldn’t make them at all.