Jullien Gordon on Identifying Sources of Strength and Struggle

In Chapter 19 of 19 in his 2014 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach and public speaker Jullien Gordon answers "At This Moment in Time, What Are the Sources of Strength and Struggle in Your Life?" As an expecting father, Gordon shares how his wife is a source of strength for both business and family. Gordon struggles with the isolation and loneliness of entrepreneurship. He looks to how thought leaders such as Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Jay-Z have benefitted from the power of two. He turns his attention to finding a business partner who can provide accountability and motivation to raise his game and bring out his best.

Jullien Gordon is a business coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase performance, motivation, engagement and retention. Gordon is also a public speaker on career planning for colleges, conferences, and corporations. He earned a BA from UCLA and MBA and M. Ed degrees from Stanford University. 

Jullien Gordon on How a Hard Work Lifestyle Can Help or Hinder a Family

In Chapter 1 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "What Childhood Experiences Have Been Most Fundamental in Shaping Who You Are Today?"  Growing up with two busy working parents, an anesthesiologist and an oral surgeon, Gordon sees the downside of working a lot, namely having parents miss important events.  Conversely, he watches his 86-year old Godmother keep a family together by employing family at her Carmela and Family Bar-B-Q restaurants in Hayward, California.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: What childhood experiences have been most fundamental in shaping who you are today?

Jullien Gordon: There’s a couple of them. One, I’m the son of two doctors. So I grew up the son of an anesthesiologist and an oral surgeon, and I saw the way my parents worked. They woke up at the crack of dawn, and even on weekends they’d be on call, and so they had to miss some very important events in my life as a child. On the other side, I saw my godmother who—her name is Carmen Kelly and she has a barbecue restaurant in Hayward, California called Carmen & Family Bar-B-Q. And even at the age of 86 today, she still works six days a week. And that restaurant has employed the entire family, and it’s even expanded to three restaurants, run by the two sons. And so, I’ve seen this way of entrepreneurship helping a family stay together as opposed to a career keeping a family apart, and I think that’s a tension that a lot of people deal with growing up. As I think about their careers and think about how their parents manage their careers, how much their dad and mom had to travel, what kind of events they missed. I saw two different models, I didn’t just see one way of doing it.

Erik Michielsen: And how has that reform your own approach?

Jullien Gordon: Well, obviously, I’m an entrepreneur today and I’m trying to think about my life, not just my career, my life, from a lifestyle-design standpoint. So how can I find my unique balance between my career, my family, myself, and my community, and really that’s really been the focus. It hasn’t just been how can I maximize my career and make the most income. I’m not playing a game of income maximization. I’m playing a game of satisfaction maximization. And so it requires me to find my unique balance and designing my life according to that.

How Childhood Experiences Shape Work Ethic - Jullien Gordon

In Chapter 2 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "Where Did You Learn Your Work Ethic?"  Gordon learns his work ethic from both his parents, two practicing physicians.  He takes inspiration from a Jamaican immigrant father - one of seventeen kids - who comes from little, studies hard, and earns professional success.  Gordon takes his first job working as a Little League umpire and goes on to work at a batting cage before going off to college.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: Where did you learn your work ethic?

Jullien Gordon: My work ethic came from my parents. I mean they were grinding, they’re both doctors. And to be a doctor, you go through medical school and you work harder than anybody else I know. It doesn’t necessarily afford you the best lifestyle, maybe an income later on once you retire, but that’s where I really learned my work ethic. My dad is from Jamaica, he was one of 16 or 17. And I saw him work his way out of that particular environment of having no shoes playing soccer, to going to boarding school, to going to McGill to University of Chicago, to the University of California San Francisco where he ended up running the dental school there. And my mom as well. So I just saw two people working extremely hard, not necessarily getting the full rewards for themselves of working so hard but I definitely get my work ethic from looking at their lives and the way that they navigate it.

Erik Michielsen: What was your first job?

Jullien Gordon: Working as an umpire in the Little League, and I loved it. My little brother was playing in the Little League at the time and sometimes I would have to umpire his games, but I was fair, I was fair. And I remember one time he got so mad ‘cause I called him out at second base when he thought he was safe, and he was mad at me for like a week. After that, I went on to work at a batting cage. You know, too many rain delays for the baseball games, so I said I’m gonna take this indoors, and I ended up working at a batting cage before going off to college.

Jullien Gordon on How Family Relationships Change With Age

In Chapter 3 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Are Your Family Relationships Changing As You Get Older?"  Getting married in July marks a huge milestone in Gordon's life.  Additionally, Gordon turns his attention to thinking how he will care for his aging parents from a distance and what role he will assume in that relationship.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How are your family relationships changing as you get older?

Jullien Gordon: First and foremost, I got married. I got married in July, so that’s been exciting this year. And of course, as you get older you start looking at your parents as opposed to adult to kid, you start looking at them eye to eye and you’re able to have different kinds of conversations than you were able to have when you lived in their household, or even when you were in college and not as independent.

I find myself having to think about how I’m going to take my—take care of my parents, especially as my mom gets older, or just trying to take on that responsibility, understanding what my role is in that relationship. We are—she’s in California, I’m in New York, and just trying to figure out how do I create my life as I build my family, but still support my mother in her—I don’t wanna call it aging, but as her life continues, how do I support and be a good son from a distance, if I don’t happen to move back to California, so that’s been challenging, thinking about that, ‘cause here I am, a newly wedded husband and I have my wife to take care of, we don’t have kids yet, but at the same time, I feel like I’m starting to have to think about how I’m gonna take care of my parents, and so that’s an interesting dynamic, and I didn’t picture it being that way as I was growing up. You know, your parents take care of themselves and then you start taking care of your family, as your family takes care of its kids and it goes that way, but… So I’m finding some interesting dynamics as I explore being a son and being a husband.

Jullien Gordon on How Getting Married Changes Your Life

In Chapter 4 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Has Married Life Been Different Than You Expected It Would Be?"  Gordon lives with his now wife two years before getting married and sees the wedding as an affirmation of that love.  By making communication a priority, Gordon improves his listening, compassion, and understanding.  This helps him grow into the relationship and be better able to manage challenges that arise in a marriage.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How has married life been different than you expected it would be?

Jullien Gordon: Oh, man. Well, we lived together for about two years before we got married. So not much changed. We were—we see our wedding as an affirmation of what already existed. It was just a celebration of what already was. But I do find myself being a better listener. You know, there’s no exit strategy. No exit strategy anymore. There’s—you know, you could always play that card when you’re just dating, and so now that you’re quote-unquote: locked in the room together, you have to figure out how to make it happen.

And so what I found is that my listening, my compassion, and my understanding has increased, because I wanna work it out. I don’t wanna be sharing space with someone who I’m gonna constantly butt heads with and so I have to ask myself, how can I change? How can I grow? How can I evolve? In order to meet this person halfway or even more than halfway, if necessary. So that’s been the challenge.

It’s been a great source of growth for me. I think fatherhood, whenever that comes, will also be another great source of growth. But we’re also both entrepreneurs, so we both work from home. I travel pretty heavily but, you know, it’s the same boundaries with starting a business with a friend. It’s like where is the boundary? When does work end? If you both have home offices, when does work end? And when are you able to have the relationship? And just because two people are in the house, does that mean that we can go knocking on each other’s door and give each other a hug in the middle of the day? Or am I at work, right? So finding those boundaries and those lines has been a little challenging and we’re trying to get clearer and clearer on what they are.

We’re also trying to figure out what rituals are gonna support and sustain our marriage. We’re looking for a spiritual community because we know that that’s gonna be helpful to us growing together, as opposed to growing apart. And one ritual that we do do is we try to go to a new restaurant every week and that’s where we can just have each other time and be present. We’re glad that our partnership has come before parenthood because sometimes it happens in the other order and it can be more difficult, and we’re still trying to wrestle with where does the partner—our partnership fit in the context of our professional lives, and what we’re trying to grow as we manifest our purposes in the world. What comes first? In what order? And to what degree? We’re still trying to work those things out. So we haven’t figured them out, but they’re conversations that we’re having.

Jullien Gordon on What Marriage Teaches About Teamwork

In Chapter 5 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "What Has Marriage Taught You About Teamwork?"  Gordon learns that communication and finance are two top challenges in a marriage relationship and makes it a priority to team with his wife addressing these key issues.  He learns there is a time and place for these conversations.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: What has marriage taught you about teamwork?

Jullien Gordon: When you ask people about relationships, the two things that come up are communication and finance, in terms of the most difficult challenges in a relationship. In regards to communication, I’ve had to become a better listener. And a better question asker, which is what I am and who I am, to really try to get at the core of what’s the issue, otherwise, issues are gonna continue to come up, if you don’t address the root. And so I’ve been more diligent about trying to get at the root of situations because this is the person I’m gonna live my entire life with. And the only way to work through that is with communication. Now, there also is-- are times where you have to know when is the best time to communicate, just because I wanna answer right now doesn’t mean that she is ready to talk and vice versa. And so that’s been core. And then the financial side is really getting clear about what’s enough and what it’s gonna take to sustain the partnership from the financial standpoint. And how do both people contribute.

In a lot of ways it is like a business, it is like a business partnership, and with the exception of the unconditional love. I think some business partners can work together without it necessarily being unconditional love, but—I’ll be honest, we have room to be a better team, I mean we are the Gordons now. We got our jerseys. We got our jerseys and-- but we’re also like the Lakers, you know? We have great players on our team and we’re trying to figure out how to work together to actually move toward something amazing. And you saw it with the Miami Heat as well, we’re Lebron James fans so. You see it with any team that’s coming together, even when there are stars on the team, it takes time.

And we see the hopefully 60, 70 years ahead of us as a time to constantly grow closer and closer and closer together. We saw our marriage as an opportunity where we felt close enough to say we’re committed to this same path together. And I think and I hope that every day is just gonna bring us closer and closer and closer together. The other day she asked me, “do you really know who I am?” And I had to say no. I don’t. But I hope that through this journey together, I constantly get to know more and more of who you are.

We made a choice out of—with uncertainty. And almost every major decision that we have in our lives, whether it’s a new partnership, from a team-standpoint. Whether it’s choosing your spiritual source, or your career, some of the biggest choices in our lives or all of the biggest choices in our lives are filled with uncertainty. And so knowing that going in, knowing that nobody on the team knows the right answer, but together, you can get to the best answer for us. I like to use us. “Us” is a third entity, because there’s the individual, there’s your teammate, and then there’s “us”. And it’s helpful to talk about “us” as a third entity in the relationship, because what’s best for one individual and what’s best for the other individual may not be what’s best for “us”. And so you have to always put “us” at the forefront when you are on a team.

Jullien Gordon on Finding a Spiritual Community

In Chapter 6 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "At This Moment in Your Life, Where Are You Seeking Advice and Coaching?"  Gordon talks about finding a spiritual community after relocating from the West Coast to the East Coast.  He details why that is important to his well-being and what he and his wife are doing to fill that void short-term - watching Agape Sunday services online - as they look for the longer-term connection.  To complement this resource, Gordon invests in his marriage, daily journaling and weekly meetings with his coach.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: At this moment in your life, where are you seeking advice and coaching?

Jullien Gordon: That’s a good question. I’ve had a very difficult time finding a spiritual community in New York in the way that I found it in California, both in Oakland and in L.A.

Erik Michielsen: What have been the challenges in finding that spiritual community in New York versus what you’ve found in Oakland and in Los Angeles?

Jullien Gordon: My spirit is at my core. And it is the reason I’m here and the more connected I am with that source of energy, the more powerful I move through the world. I mean there’s different types of energy, there’s your spiritual energy, there’s your emotional energy, there is your mental energy, and your physical energy. And for me, my spiritual energy is definitely at my core. We had initially found a community, that community—I like to say transcended and kind of evaporated, and so we are in search now. Currently we watch Agape Live on Sundays which is—Agape is a spiritual community in Los Angeles, California, and we watch that service through live stream at noon, Eastern Standard Time. And so that’s been our way of connecting, but if we could have it here in person, we believe that that would be more powerful for our growth and development. I do have a coach who I meet with about every two weeks who supports me, and holds space for me and challenges me and holds me accountable. So that’s been a powerful space for me and I invest in that. Outside of that, it’s been just a lot of deep introspection in terms of journaling on a regular basis. I call the first 30 minutes of my day first period and I use that space to meditate, to journal, to reflect, to read, and so my books and my own journaling and my own writings have been kind of my space of coaching and analysis. But I wish I could have a community of people who have a similar vision as me that I could meet regularly to work through some of the challenges that I’m having as an entrepreneur, as a man, as a husband, as a son. That would be a very healthy space for me, but I haven’t been able to find it yet, so it’s been a solo journey—or with the exception of my wife, she’s been my greatest source of feedback and accountability and safety, and so I wouldn’t—and I’ll call her my coach in a lot of ways.

Jullien Gordon on How to Make Your Work More Lasting

In Chapter 7 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Are You Learning to Make Your Work More Lasting?"  Gordon shares why he focuses on creating processes, not products or services, he can give to others.  By helping them incorporate processes into their work and habits, Gordon sees the opportunity to leave a lasting legacy that affects positive change in those he serves.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How are you learning to make your work more lasting?

Jullien Gordon: I was having this conversation with my wife, who’s also my coach, the other day. And you know there’s a difference between selling a product, selling a service, and selling a process. And what I think I’ve created is a process. When you think about processes, you think about things like Six Sigma, that’s a process that organizations have adopted for quality control and when somebody’s adopted a process, it becomes part of their life. You can use a product here and there. You can use a service here and there. But a process is something that actually has to get integrated into your entire life and your way of being.

And so I’m trying to create and structure my work in such a way where it’s a process that you can adopt bits and pieces of on a regular basis. You know, one of those processes that I’ve established is the New Year Guide and that’s a process that people are integrating into their lives at the beginning of every year. It’s how do I go look at my goals and my intentions for the upcoming year. How do I evaluate and celebrate what I accomplished in the year before and that’s just part of the process and to the extent that I can continue to grow that year after year after year after year, it’s going to only expand and grow. Another process that I have is my thank account or my gratitude journal and that’s a process that I do daily in order to shift my mind from a mindset of scarcity to a mindset of abundance. And there are other people who have adopted this process into their life, and so I’m trying to instill processes into people’s lives and that’s how I think it will be long lasting, even beyond my life here on earth.

Jullien Gordon on Why to Set New Year's Intentions and Not Goals

In Chapter 8 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Are You Helping Others Plan, Commit to, and Achieve New Year's Goals?"  Gordon shares how he helps people set their intentions by putting out his annual "New Year Guide."  He focuses not on the outcome or goal but the intention or the underlying initiative behind that goal or outcome.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How are you helping others plan, commit to, and achieve New Year’s Resolution goals?

Jullien Gordon: So as you know, every year I put out the New Year Guide which is a tool to help people set their intentions. I have shifted my beliefs in a lot of ways from setting goals to really setting intentions. And the difference is that with a goal, a goal is usually connected to some sort of outcome. And while it’s okay to have a desired outcome, an intention is more about what’s behind the desired outcome. So for instance, a lot of people will set weight loss goals this year. “I wanna lose 30 pounds.” That’s the goal, right? And that’s connected to a certain outcome. If they don’t achieve that outcome, they feel that they failed.

Whereas an intention is I wanna be healthier. And one of the goals connected to being healthier may be to lose 30 pounds. And so I’m focused on helping people get clear on their intention, and then also knowing that when you do have a desired outcome that we don’t always control the outcomes as human beings. I can do everything that Shaun T tells me to do and P90X and still not get a body that looks like his, right? But if I’m connected to the outcome then I feel like I failed. But what I can control, the only thing that’s in our control is our effort. What I can tell Shaun T is that I showed up every single day for 90 days. And I did what I was supposed to. And that may not have gotten me to that kind of physique, but it may have gotten me somewhere along the direction of where I ultimately wanted to be.

And so, one, getting clear on the distinction between goals and intentions, and really focusing on intentions and making sure the intention is right which is your why behind the goal, and then also being clear about the distinction between effort and outcome and knowing that you only have full control over the effort, we don’t have full control over the outcome. And when you start with your why and make sure that the why is big enough, you know, Viktor Frankl says a man who knows his why can bear almost any how. And what I found is that when I’m clear on my intention or my why behind something, the how tends to manifest itself. When I look back at my goals from last year, I accomplished a lot of them in ways that I didn’t even anticipate it. They happen in their own way. But that’s because the intention was strong and they manifested themselves, they didn’t manifest themselves the way I thought they would but they manifested themselves nonetheless. And so really making those distinctions clear.

Jullien Gordon on Why Living a Fulfilled Life Starts With Being Yourself

In Chapter 9 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Are Your Personal Experiences Shaping Your Professional Aspirations?"  For Gordon, it comes down to lifestyle design and in this, personal and professional are the same thing.  Gordon notes that at the end of the day your life is integrated and your behaviors need to be aligned to create conistent behaviors that support that.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How are your personal experiences shaping your professional aspirations?

Jullien Gordon: There’s no division between who I am and what I do, they are very linked. And so this is about lifestyle design for me, and my career is part of my life, there’s four domains of my life which are myself, my family, my career, and my community. So who I am is actually informing everything that I do, and I think that when we move through life in that way, we just feel more integrated and we feel more satisfied.

The way I think about it is that oftentimes we’re moving through life and there’s five different versions of ourselves. There’s who you really are, there’s who we think we are, there’s who we want to be, there’s who others think we are, and there’s what others need us to be. And to the extent that those five different versions of ourselves are spread out and they aren’t one, is where we find that we’re unfulfilled. Those are where leaks occur in our happiness and our joy. And to the extent that those things can be aligned, and you don’t feel like you have to be someone else—somebody else for somebody else, and that who you are becoming and who you are, are actually one, I find that that’s where I feel most alive and most fulfilled.

So, again, who I am informs what I do and so I don’t see a separation. There’s no separation between our personal and professional lives. If there was, where would it be? At our front door? At the driveway? At the parking lot? At our desk? There’s no line. It’s helpful to talk about them separately sometimes, but at the end of the day, our life is integrated, it’s one thing, it’s not these different compartments. If your day at work sucks then that’s gonna filter into your “personal life.” If your personal life is sucking, that’s gonna filter into your professional life. So there’s no distinction for me between the two. They’re all one for me.

Jullien Gordon on Ways to Make Work Trips More Rewarding

In Chapter 10 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "What Have You Found Most Rewarding About Traveling to New Places?"  Gordon notes how he focuses on breaking bread with friends when traveling across the United States for his work.  He places a priority on staying with friends and having personal time as well as digging into local cultures and the traditions and values that differentiate them.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: What have you found most rewarding about traveling to new places?

Jullien Gordon: I’ve been to I think about 40 states in the United States. The most beautiful thing about traveling to different places is hearing different people’s stories based on where they grew up and just seeing how much a region or an environment can actually shape the way someone thinks about the world. I also love being able to connect with all my friends who are all over the country and all over the world when I travel certain places. If I don’t have to stay in a hotel, I am willing to sleep on a friend’s couch, more importantly not because of the comfort but because I get to connect with them. And whenever I stay with a friend, I always take them out to dinner. I’m not paying for a hotel but I pay to have their presence at dinner. And so that’s one thing that I love, being able to give to them and contribute to them and just share in their presence once again. Whether we met in college, whether we met a long time ago, it’s just good to be in their presence again.

One of my metrics for success is breaking bread with people, and so when I’m coming to a town, I reach out to whoever I know there and who I want to reconnect with. And that becomes an opportunity for us and I’ve been fortunate because my work has allowed me to travel to amazing places all across the United States. Two of my favorite places happen to be Charleston, South Carolina and New Orleans. The reason I love those places is because despite consumer culture, they’ve been able to preserve their original authentic cultures. Like you don’t go there and see a whole bunch of multinational companies. You see small little businesses, and authentic architecture and design, and dialect and ways of living. Like if you’ve never seen a funeral in New Orleans then you are missing out. I mean they turn those into parades. And so—and then of course, authentic cuisine. And so those have been some of my favorite things about traveling to new places.

Jullien Gordon on What It Means to Be a Leader

In Chapter 11 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "What Does It Mean to Be a Leader in What You Do?"   Gordon notes the importance of having original thoughts and following to lead.  This gets him in a place where he can identify opportunities in his field and use his iteration process to release products and services that put him in a leadership position.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: What does it mean to be a leader in what you do?

Jullien Gordon: I think being a leader means having original thoughts, not just following the steps or the path that was currently laid out for you by, perhaps the original pioneer in your space. And so I like the notion of not following the leader but following to lead. At some point, the leader in your space is going to transition, exit, or go in a different direction and you have to say, “okay, I’ve been following and learning for this long from this person, but what original, authentic thoughts are coming through me that I need to bring into the world and bring forth?” So it really means being you at the end of the day because nobody can be you better than you, and while you may have someone who guides you for quite some time, ultimately you have to find out what is your authentic message and voice, and I think that’s what makes you a leader in whatever space it is you choose to operate in.

Erik Michielsen: What role does the trial and error process play in that leadership development?

Jullien Gordon: My whole life has been a journey of failing forward. I’ve made a lot of mistakes from losing amazing team members to unsuccessful online product launches to errors in written documents and published documents, and I constantly learn from that. I’m more of a get-it-done than a perfectionist, I used to be a perfectionist but now I’m more about getting it done and you can tell from my Good Excuse Goals book that it’s about getting the product out and then iterating from there, and getting it at least 80-90% right but not trying to get it 100% right and so. I recognize the consequences of moving in that way. But for me, even with mistakes and errors along my journey, my life has continued to impact other people’s lives. Whereas if I was trying to make things perfect, I still may be in cubby hole somewhere trying to make things perfect before I show it to the world, and my 80-90% right things have been out in the world and people have found them valuable and been inspired by them. And of course I need to close the gap over time but that’s the process for iteration for me.

Jullien Gordon on Consequences of Starting a Business With Friends

In Chapter 12 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "What Challenges Did You Face Going Into Business With Friends and What Did the Experience Teach You?"  Gordon shares lessons learned from going into a business partnership with a friend and having it not work out as planned.  He details his expectations and how they contrasted with results and how they impacted the business and friendship.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: What challenges did you face going into business with friends and what did the experience teach you?

Jullien Gordon: I’m still processing that. This year, at the beginning of this year, I started a partnership with a friend and six months in, we realized that it wasn’t working out. Some of the challenges were that I was financing the business at the time, so he was coming on as a partner, and without necessarily bringing in equity to the table. And so there— I already felt like there was some unevenness though we were both committing the same amount of time and energy, with me being the primary investor into the new partnership that felt like there was an imbalance. And so if I could do it all over again, I would do it in such a way where it’s equally financed by both partners.

Second thing is that you tend to lose your friendship, tend to lose your friendship, because when you see each other, all the conversations are about the business and how do we grow the business, how do we grow the business, and we were able to carve out some friend-time. “We’re not talking about work, we’re just gonna go hang out and have fun together.” But that time became less and less and less, especially as the business got strapped. It’s like, no, we don’t have time to have fun. We need to grow the business.

Another thing that occurred was distance, the partnership started off being a long-distance partnership, and ultimately we ended up in the same city, but distance was a huge detractor from the partnership. What I know from working on larger teams before is that I vibe off the energy of another person, just like I told you about the energy in the room when I’m leading a training. And with that person being distant and you two working virtually, that added benefit of having that person at your back and you both going hard and being accountable to each other, it wasn’t there. And so I missed out on that even though there was a quote-unquote: partnership.

Our friendship is not in a good place right now. It sucks. And I don’t think it has to be that way for all partnerships. Wish I could do it over again, but those are lessons I’m learning and I’m still processing what went wrong as well as what went right.

Jullien Gordon on How to Build Career Coaching Conversation Skiils

In Chapter 13 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Are Your Coaching Skills Improving as You Build Experience?"  Gordon learns ways to ask someone questions to understand where they are coming from.  He learns different ways to improve the questions he asks and the coaching conversation - and outcome - that results.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How are your coaching skills improving as you build experience?

Jullien Gordon: So my coaching skills, they come from my personal journey, but before anything, rather than coaching from my experience, I actually coach from my listening. So I actually focus on listening to the individual first. What I found is that oftentimes, especially when you think about self-help books and things of that nature, a lot of times when you read those books and then we try to apply somebody else’s framework or definition of success to our life, it doesn’t work out, because that’s theirs. And so when I coach, I don’t necessarily just take my experiences and translate them to the individual and say, “Here, do this,” instead, I start with deep listening and really thinking about what their situation is and then try to put myself in their shoes and then based on my experiences and my insights regarding that situation, it may inform my answer, but sometimes when I’m helping them, I’m really focused on asking the right questions. Rather than giving people answers, I’m focused on asking the right questions, because I think that when you ask the right questions, then the individual gets insights, and that insight leads to authentic answer for them. And so I think there are some coaches out there who take their experiences and then try to superimpose those experiences on the individual and say, “This worked for me, you should do exactly this,” and that’s not really the way I coach. My experiences help me understand an individual and where they’re coming from in a deeper way, especially as not only I have my experiences but I hear and have the experiences of others that I coach and that I connect with, all those stories are in my listening but I pull bits and pieces from them to help ask the right questions, not necessarily give answers for my coaching clients.

Erik Michielsen: That’s great. How are you learning to ask the right question?

Jullien Gordon: Pausing like this. Not trying to be right. And trusting that the individual, or my audience when I’m speaking to larger groups, have the answers within them, and that I’m just creating the space for them to actually explore what’s best for them. That’s really what it’s been for me. And like I said, sometimes my experiences and the stories that I hear from others help shape the question but I stay with questions rather than answers. A lot of people want answers, but I think when you give somebody a standard answer and they apply it, it may not work for them in the same way that it worked for you.

Jullien Gordon on Improving Career Workshop Experiences

In Chapter 14 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Are You Learning to Facilitate More Effective Workshop Experiences?"  In his public speaking work facilitating career education workshops, Gordon shares how he has transitioned from providing his audience tools and answers to asking questions and allowing his audience to come up with authentic answers.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How are you learning to facilitate more effective workshop experiences?

Jullien Gordon: Originally, when I started this work, it was all about giving people the answers, the 8 cylinders of success. Here, here’s my 8 cylinders of success. Try this on and use it for your life, implement it. And while 5 of the cylinders may resonate with you, for somebody else, it may be 3 cylinders, for somebody else it may be all 8. But I found by instead of giving answers and just by asking the right questions, I help the individuals in the audience actually come to their own authentic answers. And it’s their own authentic answers that are gonna stick with them throughout their life. I can give you my weight loss program but if it doesn’t align with who you are then your chances of actually completing it are going to be slim. But if you come up—if I ask you the right questions in terms of your eating patterns, how your body reacts and you come up with your own authentic answers for your diet, your exercise routines, et cetera. What kind of exercise is fun for you? I can’t just run around a track. I need a ball. I need to be playing basketball or I need to be playing soccer. I can’t exercise just by running around a track, that’s not fun, that’s not engaging for me. So, again, it’s been by asking the questions and trusting that the people know the answers. That’s what interviewing is all about, the assumption is that the answer is already within you. And if I can create a safe space and ask the right questions and bring it out, then you are creating your own plan and strategy for the next phase of your life.

Jullien Gordon on Using a Teaching Degree in a Business Career

In Chapter 15 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "How Have You Used a Masters Degree in Education in Your Business Career?"  Earning a teaching degree at Stanford helps Gordon better understand how individuals learn and how educational systems facilitate learning.  This shapes how he teaches career education in his business work.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How have you used your master’s degree in education in your business career?

Jullien Gordon: Well, at my core I’m a teacher, and one thing that I learned in terms of my master’s degree in education was how people learn. And so that’s been core to the way I develop my curriculum, the way I develop workshop experiences. It’s just been extremely valuable in that way. Ultimately I want to expand career education, I think it’s lacking in the same way that I think financial literacy is lacking in our K-12 education, in our college education, and our adult education. Why don’t people know how to do a budget? Why don’t people know how to manage the difference between assets and liabilities? Why don’t people know how to navigate their own career?

For me it’s the same thing and while I haven’t found a way to fully scale career education yet, so that people can manage their own careers and stop relying on their organization to manage their careers for them or their boss to manage their careers for them, I want to—ultimately I want to empower people to be able to navigate their careers on their own. And so that’s why that education at Stanford was so important to me because I understood how educational systems work, and how individuals learn, so I understood the ultimate infrastructure and I understood how people actually receive and retain information, and that shaped my teaching and my structuring of the work that I do.

Online Learning Limitations for Career Education - Jullien Gordon

In Chapter 16 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon answers "What are the Limitations of Using Online Learning Tools for Career Education?"  After creating several online learning programs for career planning, Gordon finds it is fundamental to have a live event or live interaction to build a successful career coaching or inspirational speaking experience.  Gordon references both Tony Robbins and Zig Ziglar as examples of motivational speakers who complement core live event work with online resources.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: What are the limitations of using online learning tools for career education?

Jullien Gordon: It’s been tough. I have created quite a few online programs to help people navigate their career in a more powerful way. And what I found is that one of my gifts is actually my presence and the listening in the safe space that I’m able to create. And when you think about Tony Robbins or Zig Ziglar, those guys—their businesses are built off of live events. While they may have audio programs and things of that nature, there’s something about being in a live space. I also believe in the wisdom of the crowds and you—in some cases, you can’t facilitate that online. But when I’m asking the right questions and I’m creating safe spaces for people to help each other, get clear on their answers, I just found that there is something unique that happens in a live event that can’t happen online. That’s really been difficult for me is to translate that safe environment online. What is safe about being online is that sometimes people feel like they can be anonymous, and that’s where they get safety online, but there’s just an energy that happens in a live space that I haven’t been able to translate online yet. I’ve seen a lot of people get inspired online, but I haven’t seen a life transform online. I have seen a life transform in my events. Like right there, in the moment. I haven’t seen that online before.

Jullien Gordon: Career Planning Advice for Millennial Professionals

In Chapter 17 of 21 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, business coach Jullien Gordon "What Steps Have You Found Most Effective to Help Young Professionals Create Career Plans?"  When working with younger professionals - Gen Y and Millennials - on career planning, Gordon starts with a process to help clients get clear on life and career goals.  He lays out his 4-step process to create a dream life, attract a dream career, build a dream team and land your dream job and walks through why and how to do this.  Jullien Gordon is a high performance coach and consultant to organizations, individuals and teams who want to increase employee performance, motivation, engagement and retention.  He earned a BA from UCLA, an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and a Masters of Education from Stanford University.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: What steps have you found most effective to help young professionals create career plans?

Jullien Gordon: Good question. So whenever I’m talking to a young professional to help them think about their career plan, I like to break it down into four different steps. And the four steps are, one, creating your dream life. Next is attracting your dream career. Then building your dream team. Then landing your dream job. And of course the acronym for “dream” means to have your desired relationships employment and money. So it’s really about your life design, and the reason I start with creating your dream life first is because your life is bigger than your career, a lot of times people allow their career to define who they are, when in fact who we are should define what we do.

And so I start with your life first. What is your vision for your life? And then let’s find a career path that actually allows you to have the life that you want. And so we start with creating your dream life and that’s a visioning process, thinking about your perfect average day, or your perfect average week, and what you want your desired relationships to look like, and your relationships not just being with your significant other or your kids but your spiritual source, your parents, your friends, your colleagues, what do you want those relationships to look like? What do you want your employment to look like? How do you want to create value? What problems do you want to solve? How do you want to use your passion on a daily basis? And then money, what is enough? And do you have enough? And really getting clear on what that is.

And then from there, attracting your dream career is all about your professional and personal branding, that’s your résumé, your cover letter, your web presence, and your business cards, the way you network, et cetera. Building your dream team means of course your networks up, down, across and out. So not just—a lot of people have strong networks across in terms of their Facebook friends, but if you look in their cellphone, 95% of the people are in their age group, I found that the most powerful form of networking is networking up with other professionals, with peers, with mentors, with leaders in the community, et cetera. Those are the people who are on the other side of the door that you’re trying to get into. Your peers can get you to the door, but you want to know who’s on the other side of the door who – or who has the key.

And then of course, finally, landing your dream job is all about the interview process, and nailing your first 90 days at whatever new organization that you’re at. So that’s how I like to help people think about their career journey.