Bijoy Goswami on How Family Relationships Change With Age

In Chapter 1 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Are Your Family Relationships Changing As You Get Older?"  Goswami discusses how his parent relationships are becoming less instructional and more collaborative and peer based.  He discusses ways, including annual family gatherings, that allow the relationships to flourish and provide support across the family. 

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How are your family relationships changing as you get older?

Bijoy Goswami: You know, we moved from specific relationships like my mom and dad, you know, and they were in charge of our life and telling us what to do, to we’re all on the journey together and we’re helping each other with our journeys, you know. So, it’s less of a structure, it’s more of these fellow travelers that I've gotten to be with my journey for all my life.

My parents and my brothers, you know, almost all my life so, but we get to reflect and help each other through the journey and so it’s becomes peer to peer, you know process rather than a structured process and so it’s much less of you’re supposed to be doing this or how it’s going but it’s much more of reflection, helping someone express themselves more fully, more completely and having that long history. No one else has the history of knowing the deep thread that kind of ties it all together for, for, you know.

So, I think that’s been really fun and for us we get together as a family once a year at least in Hong Kong, get together for Christmas that’s our tradition. But that’s also our time to sort of sink up, calibrate. We’re always in touch of course during the year, too but that’s really a good time for us to sink up, calibrate, talk about stuff, get reflected, get reset and then take on the next year.

Career Advice From Don Quixote and Bruce Lee

In Chapter 2 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "What Has Your Passion for the Peforming Arts Taught You About the Power of Preparation?"  Goswami discusses how preparation and repetition enable a more full immersion in a creative place.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  What has your passion for the performing arts taught you about the power of preparation?

Bijoy Goswami:  The importance of peace. Preparation is really important, you know, I find this to be true of lots of things. You know, performing arts is, you’ve gotta keep doing something over and over again so that you can get rid of all the practice and just be in the moment. So, this is this funny thing of these three stages, you know, of the journey.

Going back to that three-part process. If you just come in and you're kind of buffoon, you’re just kind of like, “Oh”, you know. A guy named Robert Johnson talks about Don Quixote as sort of that stage one, he shows up to the game and he’s just like, “What’s up?,” and you know he’s just, “I'm a warrior”, “No you're not. You know, you have no idea what you’re doing”, you know, and then sort of you get to that point where you take that but then you start getting to this point where you now have, you start developing your skills and capabilities, right? But then you’re still practicing; you're still working in a way that you’re following a rule set, okay? But if you keep going then what happens is you actually go back in this third place you become Don Quixote again but with all these knowledge behind you.

So, in Zen it’s like the beginner’s mind, right? So, the beginner’s mind is like, oh show up to, Bruce Lee we’ll talk about, you know, show up to the fight. Well, if you’ve not practiced today and you show to the fight, you’re gonna get your ass, you know, kicked but if you show to the fight and you have all the stuff behind you 10,000 hours, 20,000 hours then you can truly be in a creative space. You can now say, it’s all in you. It’s not that you're just keeps discarding it. It’s actually all there but you're calling upon, you know, as needed.

So, I think preparation, you know, is something you just have to – You’ve gotta do all the time and rehearsal for a play is kind of a mini example of what you do in life, you know, you spend those hours rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing so that you could come and you're not anymore thinking about the lines and the set and where am I moving and you’re just being, you're being Hamlet, you're being the character and you’re in that moment and you're going for it. So, preparation is that – is the difference between a bumbling fool and someone who’s a master.

Crafting a Personal Philosophy to Reach Your Full Potential

In Chapter 3 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "At This Moment in Your Life, Where Are You Seeking Advice and Coaching?"  Goswami shares his life model and where he finds himself in it as he continues his journey on understanding his place in the world and how he can realize his potential by living a certain way.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  At this moment in your life, where are you seeking advice and coaching?

Bijoy Goswami:  you know, I've been on this journey as you’ve been tracking for the last few years and it’s really been interesting, I've realized that, you know, even the last few years I've on a threshold of something very interesting which is, which is what I call Bijoyism or you know, Bijoyist like what is it to be me, you know. What is it to have my own complete philosophy, understanding of the world.

And what I realized is I would go to this sort of three-step process. The, you know, the stage one where you simply live according to other people’s rules. Stage two, you let go of what you’ve been given and then the third stage, you start to really live according to your own aesthetics and your own idea of what is you’re trying to create in the world. So, to me what’s really interesting is, I know a lot of friends who have done that in different aspects of their life, they might be, they might have broken the mold in entrepreneurship, they might have broken the mold in relationships or sexuality or whatever it is and for me it’s just interesting to step fully over that threshold now that all the different pieces have all gotten to this third stage, I feel like.

So, I think what is it to live that fully integrated stage three is really what I'm looking at and I think you have a lot of leadership in stage one, you have a lot of folks that – Stage one is broadly external. How do you create things in the external world, how do you make more money, how do become more powerful, how do you – You do all that. We have a lot of those leaders in that. You have Stage two, which is the spiritual journey broadly speaking. People who have gone in the inner world and I think you have less of the stage three, it is sort of like, it’s like, you know, the population is in this progression. So, I think people like, you know, I think it’s interesting because people like Steve Jobs I think are a stage three person. Where you examine his life, the biography is really great. You look at someone who’s really integrated, you know, spiritual, the material and then he’s creating, he’s just creating, you know.

So, I think it’s interesting because I think there are not as many guides for the stage three way of living and that’s what I'm beginning to curate. It’s like look at how do you – Is there a way to teach that? Is there a way to learn that? Is there a way to articulate it? Who is articulating it? Because most of the time it gets articulated in terms of the other two.

How to Let Go and Make Space for Something New in Your Life

In Chapter 4 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Are Your Community Responsibilities Changing?"  Goswami shares how he has been developing and why he is letting go of existing responsibilities to make space for something new.  He sees it as a process or cycle that allows him to distill his purpose.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How are your community responsibilities changing?

Bijoy Goswami:  What I found is this three-stage process in terms of finding your way, you start with another way. You’re painting, let other people paint upon you. Second, you start to strip off that paint and a lot of what I've been doing the last while is stripping off some of this paint and that has meant actually not being as integral to things like Bootstrap Austin or things like that and say, how can I take a backseat, how can I let go of some of these things so that I can make a space for something new.

So, again, I find it to a cycle. It’s not like I’m, you know, going away from everything fully but it’s part of I'm saying, I'm doing that process so I can find out what the next way of engaging is. So, I think I might have brought up the Banksy analogy where I hack systems. I try to intervene inside of systems but I'm don’t necessarily try to hold on to them or be part of them for much—a long time. So, what I found is I'm still involved, I'm still engaged but in terms of projects where I am assisting those projects, I go in and I leave, you know, rather than try to be ongoingly in them.

So, that’s a lot of what’s been happening. I think it’s given me the opportunity to then say okay. What am I really trying to – How am I distilling all that into something that I'm really putting forward in the world.

How to Be More Creative by Changing Your Surroundings

In Chapter 5 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Has Changing Your Surroundings Made You More Creative?"  He notes how altering patterns and routines creates a more open-minded or curious mindset that fuels his creative thinking. 

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How has changing your surroundings made you more creative?

Bijoy Goswami:  You know, you get into patterns, right? So, when I'm in Austin I'm in my pattern. I mean, there’s a set of things that I do and I think Austin is a very creative place because there’s so much serendipity that happens both from things like South By and other festivals, Fuse Box and things like that happen through the year and they sort of immerse you into these different environments but otherwise with those happening you’re kind of on a particular pattern.

I think you start to get grooved in, you know, things start to solidify and you don’t really think outside the box but when things like South By happens, it’s really interesting because it’s actually an experience layered on to the same environment all of a sudden I'm in a different mode, you know, and so it’s a very interesting thing because you’re not going toward something you’re more open to receiving things. So, your mindset is very different. You’re saying, oh, what’s new? What’s interesting? You’re looking up and around rather than forward and ahead. So, I think that’s what that does, I mean, in Austin our festivals do that.

For me, it’s whenever I travel that’s what happens. I mean, you know, I go to London or go to UK or I was in Oslo last year, I mean, it’s just always interesting because – and it’s also funny because you see the similarities of what makes culture the same but you also see all these differences and you’re like, oh, that’s really interesting and I can see where that came from and the weather influenced this and, you know. So, I think it just jogs you out of your routine, which is really cool.

How to Get into a Flow State of Productivity

In Chapter 6 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "When Do You Find Yourself Entering a Flow State of Productivity?"  He shares how flow only comes after an immersion process.  Once the immersion is under way, flow occurs and he is able to find a zone of productivity. 

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  When do you find yourself entering a flow state of productivity?

Bijoy Goswami:  I think it’s a matter of taking enough time to do a task long enough that you get into it. So, what I found is a flow state occurs, you know, in any given moment, you need about an hour or two of ongoing work in that task and then you find yourself in a flow state.

So, there’s something about – There’s a settling in process and settling down process and then once you’re in that zone, you’re in that flow state but you can’t – I very rarely find myself starting in the flow state and so, you know, I’ll ramp up a task and start doing something and then as I’m doing it more then I’ll find myself in the flow state.

So, I mean, like, you know, South By is a great example like, you know, again you’ll start and you're like, oh, yeah South By and you have these festivals and there’s panels and, you know, and then you just start going, you start getting into it and by the first day or second day you're down the road and you’re just gonna stop by, you know that you’re in the process of it. So, I think it’s a really interesting thing, it did take some setup and then once you’ve setup then you can start to groove in.

Bijoy Goswami on What Makes Life Meaningful

In Chapter 7 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "What Makes Your Work Meaningful?"  Goswami finds meaning trying to enhance the world by creating internally, in other words himself, and externally, in his work and family. 

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  What makes your work meaningful?

Bijoy Goswami:  So I believe meaning is invented, it’s constructed. We make our meaning, we decide what is meaningful.

A lot of times we might make a decision based on, you know, we might decide based on other things people have given us and said this is meaningful so then we say okay great but ultimately we are making a decision deep down that something is meaningful. But, so meaning has to do with what I find beautiful, what I find pleasing, what I think is something that enhances the world in a way that I like it be enhanced and so, you know, that doesn’t change day today necessarily but it’s got a thrust to it, but I also know that it’s something I've chosen. So, that, you know, that I'm like my meaning is this but it isn’t necessarily the meaning. There’s separation between those two things.

So, things that I find, that I find meaningful is, you know, I think we’re here to create, you know, we have this ability to create, to create first of all our lives, ourselves, that’s the most important thing you're creating is who you are in the world and if you could succeed to that creation, you know, that’s a pretty darn amazing thing, you know, and then can you create externally. You know, can you create in the world so that others can enjoy your creations, you know, and that takes a whole other set of work whether you create as an entrepreneur or you create, you know, you create family or you create… but that fundamental act of creation and bringing something into the world is I think the core thing that is meaningful. It just seems like that’s, that’s very universal. So, what you create and how you create, what you choose to create maybe that’s the part that you go okay.

For me, like, having a family not a big priority, in fact not a priority – Negative priority in other words. I see my friends who have families and I'm like a love but they do that and I know it gives them great joy and great meaning and there’s a lot of structural things that give you meaning in that. So there’s biology and billions of years of evolution that are gonna causing you to go, that’s a really meaningful experience and what’s the most important thing is I've got my kids and I get that, you know, and I'm not decrying it and I think that’s fine. But for me that’s not a place where I feel like – I know like if I did it things will kick in that would cause me to feel like it was meaningful but it’s just not something I wanna spend my time on, where, you know, raising a kid is a long term commitment, it’s a lifelong commitment and it shifts your priorities, it shifts your focus to that. How do I bring up my kids and how can I make enough money, just wanna take care of my kids and in a way I think it becomes very – For me it becomes a more narrow pursuit rather than something that I wanna kinda keep more, more open and more, you know, more global.

How Leadership and Management Work Together

In Chapter 8 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "What is the Difference Between Effective Management and Leadership?"  Goswami discusses the duality of leadership and management and also how they differ.  He talks about management, as an externalized skill, can be learned and leadership, more internalized, is more difficult to teach.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  What is the difference between effective management and leadership?

Bijoy Goswami:  Management I think is about how you get from A to B, you know. What are the set of things that need to be accomplished from getting someone or a team or an organization from A to B. So, it’s about breaking things down to tasks about, you know, understanding what’s something—what’s involved, who’s on the team, what are people doing, that kind of thing. 

Leadership is providing the inspiration. The why. Why should we do those tasks? Why does it matter that we’re going from here to A to B. So, to me these are very linked. The duality of management and leadership is that they’re linked, intermingled but they’re very different. 

So, a lot of the times people might be very good at one and might not be as good at the other but leadership again I think is, is certainly the place where I get excited because I think management is, it can be learned very easily because it’s an externalize skill, you know, you kinda go okay, here’s some principles, here’s some ways of doing it. You know, I think a lot of times leadership is taught like management which I think is a mistake like “Leadership, there’s this 25 rules of leadership”, I don’t think it works that way. 

I think leadership is much more personal, it’s much more, you know, it comes from within. So, that is the hard thing is that in a way I don’t think leadership can be taught. You think you can be given a way to find out what your leadership is about, who you are as a leader. So, then maybe you can teach that like I work in leadership Austin in Austin, that’s a lot of what happens there is they go what is leadership to you? Whereas with management, I think you can really sit there and teach that and say here’s what management is.

How to Make Your Ideas Easier to Evangelize

In Chapter 9 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Are You Becoming Better at Selling a Vision?"  He shares the importance of distilling a vision into something simple so it can be more easily evangelized and speaks from experience on how to make it happen.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How are you becoming better at selling a vision?

Bijoy Goswami:  I think that part of it is that that vision has to be distilled, you know, so like if you ask someone, okay, what’s your vision and they kinda go off and they go, oh, it’s like 25 things. It’s like, no that’s not a vision, that’s too broad and it becomes very hard to evangelize a vision because people are, they go well, is it that, is it this, is it motherhood and apple pie and everything else, right?

So, I think part of it is, I feel like it’s like what Michael Angelo said about David. He said, you know, the rock was there; David was in there I had to keep cutting and get all the excess rock. So, ironically I think it’s a process of finding out that one thing like what are you about and yes, you're about 500 things and we can all be, but part of this thing about being locked in who we are is we’re positional, right? There’s a position that we get to take in the world. We can’t take all positions.

So, taking away the positions that are not you or that are not at your core is to me the real process. So, that’s what I've—I feel like I've been doing is articulating lots different positions, right. Oh, MRE, you know maybe later evangelist, Bootstrapping that’s all about different aspects but those aren’t actually they’re all pieces of the puzzle.

How to Be a More Successful Teacher

In Chapter 10 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "What Steps Have You Taken to Become a Better Teacher?"  Goswami differentiates between teaching and lecturing.  He notes what he has learned about making sure the student generates something new after absorbing and learning the concepts or lessons. 

“I think the really key piece of teaching is that the student has to generate. They have to generate something. If they’re not generating something there’s no evidence of learning and there’s no way to know that they’re learning.”

— Bijoy Goswami

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  What steps have you taken to become a better teacher?

Bijoy Goswami:  So, I think there’s a lot of pieces to that puzzle and it’s… teaching is a really complex thing. A lot of the times you think oh, teaching I will just get up there and pontificate and blab on that’s really not teaching that’s lecturing, that’s entertaining, that’s not teaching.

So, I think the really key piece of teaching is that the student has to generate. They have to generate something. If they’re not generating something there’s no evidence of learning and there’s no way to know that they’re learning. They’re actually aren’t learning.

So, you know, there’s a process but you got to get them choose into concept, you gotta get them multi-model because people are depending on modalities, some wanna hear it, some wanna see it, some wanna touch it that kind of thing but ultimately they gotta generate it and they gotta take the concept and do something with it, create something new with it. If you haven’t done that third step I think that’s when you haven’t really succeeded as a teacher.

So, that’s maybe the biggest thing I've learned is if they’re just passively sitting there, you know, taking in information and they aren’t actually processing it and then not spewing it out like you told them but actually combining it to create something new, that third part is the real test of learning and teaching.

How Context Improves Message Communication

In Chapter 11 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Are You Learning to Adapt Your Message to Reach Different Audiences?"  Goswami firstly tries not to change the message and focus more on changing the message context to connect with different groups. 

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How are you learning to adapt to your message to reach different audiences?

Bijoy Goswami:  Actually it’s funny. I think I've done that a lot where I’m actually doing the reverse right now, which is I'm trying to find the message that appeals to lots of audiences but have it be the same message.

If you were asking me tactically what I do with audiences, you know, it’s really to think about their context and think about where are they, what’s happening, what are they trying to achieve? If I'm speaking at conference I'm going, okay, what’s this conference? What’s the larger picture of what they’re trying to achieve? And how do I go to that flow? And I think that’s exactly what one ought do is really who’s coming before me? Who’s coming after me? Why are they asking me to be here, you know? And it’s not that the message doesn’t change but the context of the message changes.

So, I had a great example of that recently where people came back and said, wow, that was the best thing ever and I was still giving the core of my message but it was political context or an activist context versus an entrepreneurial context. I'm still taking entrepreneurial concepts and saying, here’s how you can maybe think about them here in this context.

So, I think that’s, that’s what you do there but I think it’s really interesting to think about how you actually put out something that again I think if you’re not in someone else’s context but you're trying to create a context, a container for something then it’s about one message that you can take out, and that’s I think a different problem.

How to Make Your Creative Work More Lasting

In Chapter 12 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Are You Learning to Make Your Work More Lasting?"  He notes how constant iteration helps him uncover deeper truths behind the models he creates in his writing.  He shares how each year offers additional perspective to build upon his core concepts and create something more truthful, lasting, and pervasive.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How are you learning to make your work more lasting?

Bijoy Goswami: I do two things. One is you have to keep working at it to make sure that it’s actually right at some level that it is – The longest that I've worked in terms of models is MRE (Maven, Relater, Evangelist) with The Human Fabric and so I started with that model probably in 2000 with my buddy Bruce when we started our company together in 2000 and then moved on from there and get some other things, 2005 I wrote Human Fabric with a friend, another friend David Wolpert and I wrote this book The Human Fabric which described the three energies and often times you’d say well great, that was the book and you’ve really done it and what I've found now in 2012 is that 2005 and 2000 were just the beginning like writing the book was just the beginning of the process. I've learned so much more about the MRE, about how those energies work in the intervening seven years and I would guess that in the next 7 or 20 or 30 or however long I get, I'll keep doing that. So, to me the thing is, you gotta – There’s something about your trying to tap in to something that’s actually true that it’s verifiable, you know. And the more true the thing is that you're finding out, the more lasting it is because that’s what, you know, pervades is truth.

So, you know, people say, you know, with evolution, oh evolution is just a theory. Well, there’s a complete misunderstanding of what a theory is, right? A theory is something that is articulated and has been attacked and evolution has been attacked for the last 200 years or however long it’s been and still has stood up. So, clearly something that Darwin found was a deep truth that actually is true about the way the universe and the world works.

So, when you confine something that is true in some deep sense I think by its definition it is gonna be lasting. So, that’s certainly one thing is you can’t just promote something that is, that’s just because you feel promoting it, I think that’s not necessarily going to last. So, you gotta find something that’s true and gotta be able to say, well, you know, this part that I said before is not true and so I'm gonna amend it, I'm gonna change it so that I can really articulate the deeper truth that I now know.

But I think the other piece of it is I do think that there’s sort of this deeper truth but there’s also your truth and so that may be the piece of it that’s really interesting. When you look at great artists, when you look at people like who’ve done something that we as a civilization back and go, Oh, my gosh. What is it? They express something uniquely. They found their way to, you know, do painting. They found their way to make a company. When you look at Apple, there’s no other company like Apple whenever you look inside that company, it’s like there’s not the 10 principles that Apple uses. They’re their principles.

So, there’s this interesting tension between things that are true at some fundamental level and things that are true for you. So, I completely, you know, disagree with the idea that the whole studies that go, here are the five things that works for everyone because what are the things that work for you. So, I think that’s what really also interesting is that what’s lasting is also what’s particular true and unique to the person, to the organization, to that place or whatever it is.

How to Be Less Judgmental and More Accepting

In Chapter 13 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Do You Create Hope and Dispel Fear When Introducing New Concepts and Ideas?"  Goswami stresses the importance of meeting someone where they are and not judging them for being wrong for where they are.  It is not a right versus wrong discussion.  Rather it is about acceptance and how to introduce new concepts into the conversation.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How do you create hope and dispel fear when introducing new concepts and ideas?

Bijoy Goswami:  You have to go back and meet someone where they are and if you meet someone where they are then they’re not wrong for being where they are, right?

So, one of my things is we’re all on this journey, we’re all on this journey of evolution and we’re some place and I was 12 at one point and I knew what I knew, now I'm 38 and be something. So, to me it’s if I can meet someone where they are, then there’s nothing wrong, they’re not wrong for being who they are. They’re not wrong for being where they are. They’re not wrong for holding the beliefs they do or whatever. Once that acceptance not just posing as it I actually do understand that then I can say okay. Well, what’s a concept or how can I then stimulate a new concept or how can I, you know, intervene in the system but if you meet someone where they are there’s no question of fear or its – Because the other piece of it is that even when you introduce something new you’re actually, you’re gonna co-create that with them, right?

Like this dialogue here, we’re creating a dialogue here. We’re both creating it together. Same thing there, so immediately they go, Oh, wow. It’s a give and take, it’s a 1 + 1, we’re going back and forth, alright? So, when I think about new concepts or any ideas I'm always listening for where are they gonna inform what I'm doing because I'm actually trying to advance it, it’s not a static thing. It’s an evolving thing. How are they gonna advance it from me, so how they can meet where I am, right?

Once it’s in a dialogue in that sense, a dialogue in which you’ve really met where they are in their path, I don’t think you have that sense of fear. You don’t have that sense of loathing or foreboding, it’s oh that’s great and we all know there’s something next. Whenever I’m in a moment, there’s a new moment. That’s just the way, that’s just the way things are.

How to Turn an Art Concept into an Art Project

In Chapter 14 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Do You Balance Experimentation and Commitment in the Projects You Pursue?"  Goswami frames each project in what evolutionary process.  He applies a bootstrap model for startup projects as a framework for the process of taking creative ideas from concept to project.  Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How do you balance experimentation and commitment in the projects that you pursue?

Bijoy Goswami: Experimentation, so I think of that as the evolutionary piece. Where is something in the evolutionary stage and so based on its evolution it needs different things. That’s really the biggest thing I learned from the Bootstrap map, the Bootstrap journey and all that, is yes there’s this particular of this Bootstrap process but if you abstract it out everything goes through an evolutionary cycle, everything is in some state of development.

So, if something is in an earlier stage then I'm going to do much more of, you know, getting feedback and trying lots of things and things like that. When something is in a stage where’s it’s moved out of this experimentation stage and it becomes something more solid and I'm trying to get it out, I'm gonna experiment less, I gonna to now, try to converge down on a way that works across the broad set. So, to me the big difference is where is something in its evolution and then based on its evolution like I was telling about the Orange Sunglass project at the Fusebox festival, which is really – At the end it’s very simple. I have a pair of orange sunglasses I hand them to you, you pick a photographer, you take my iPhone, you go out into the Fusebox space, you take as many picture as you want, be creative, come back, pick a picture, we upload it, we tag and we title the picture that’s the very streamlined process but the way but they way it started was I, I was taking the pictures and I put the sunglasses on someone else and then someone else said let me grab, you know, so in the experimentation stage, in the early stage of deciding what the project was it was like, what do you think about this and everyone had this three cents to put in.

Meanwhile I'm still curating trying to figure out okay lots of different options and ideas, some paths didn’t work then as we did maybe the 20th or 30th picture it found its groove. Now, I can just say, hey, you want to be part of the orange sunglass project, here’s out it works. Whereas before I'm like I'm trying to figure this out, what do you think, how does it, you know, so the modality changed as the thing evolved.

A Better Way to Handle Rejection

In Chapter 16 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "How Do You Deal With Rejection?"  Goswami notes how rejection is a part of life.  He shares how he learns to respect perspectives of others and keep an open mind of what may be right and what may co-exist. 

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  How do you deal with rejection?

Bijoy Goswami:  Rejection is just part of life. Rejection is also making an aesthetic decision that whatever you're doing is not part of what they might be doing.

It’s great. I don’t think I'm gonna be able to talk to everyone in the world. I'm not gonna be able to interact with everyone and I don’t want to. So, to me like, you know, I think rejection is part of it.

Now, I think rejection could be done differently but in terms of when I'm rejected I don’t see it as, I don’t see it as anything but an aesthetic or a personal choice and someone’s prerogative is to reject things that they don’t like and one of those things could be me or an idea I’m promoting or whatever and so I see that as a very natural, natural course of things. I think where we make a mistake in terms of how we treat each other is that we, we reject – Because we need to say, we have to reinforce our idea of what’s right rather than say these two different ideas can both coexist. We have to then reject the person. We have to reject, you know, we have to do a Rush Limbaugh. We have to attack the person and bring them down and do all this stuff because we’re afraid of something in ourselves.

So, that to me when people do that, that’s I think called projection rather than rejection and that’s, you know, I see that too. I'm like, all right, you know, that’s fine. So, I think it starts from I'm not trying to get everyone on board, I'm not trying to get this – I’ve already accepted myself and so I don’t need other people to accept me. If we haven’t affirmed ourselves and other people reject us then we think I'm wrong and we take it personally. When we’ve affirmed ourselves and we know who we are and we know what we’re about then rejection is just part of the game.

When to Walk Away From Your Startup and Move On

In Chapter 17 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, leadership philosopher Bijoy Goswami answers "When Have You Had to Walk Away From Something Dear to Your Heart?"  Goswami shares the story of his first startup venture and coming to the decision to move on and pursue something else.  He recounts how he separated from his business partner and worked on a software company for several years before making the decision to take a new direction. 

Bijoy Goswami is a writer, teacher, and community leader based in Austin, Texas.  He develops learning models, including MRE, youPlusU, and Bootstrap, to help others live more meaningfully.  Previously, he co-founded Aviri Software after working at Trilogy Software.  Goswami graduated from Stanford University, where he studied Computer Science, Economics, and History. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen:  When have you had to walk away from something dear to your heart?

Bijoy Goswami:  You know, I would say my first venture, you know, that I worked on the start-up with this software that was meant to be a knowledge network that was wiring up knowledge networks, human knowledge networks things that evolved that had become Facebook and LinkedIn and things like that over the next few years and what happened there was I had – I started this project with a friend of mine who we’ve said we’re gonna go and do this venture together. 

We ended up doing the venture, getting all the people involved and then at some point we weren’t able to get the traction that we needed in the marketplace. It was early 2000, things like that and not only did the employees go but this buddy Bruce and I, Bruce said okay, I gotta move off on this thing and so I was like, what do you mean, we’re just going, we’re just getting going here, yeah we had. You know, I was like the knight in the Holy—in the Crusades, the just a flesh wound, you know and the Holy Grail. Comeback here where are you going and so I continued working on that for a few years actually as a one person software company and we had the software and I was working on the software and actually all the revenue that the company ever had as a software company I sold as a one person software, you know, company. 

But then it just kind of like, I just couldn’t keep it going, you know, and more than that I think other things started too, other projects started to emerge Bootstrap and Human Fabric and all these other things and so I had to say that’s gonna be put back on the shelf. And it wasn’t like, it wasn’t like – I don’t remember making that decision explicitly it just sort of evolved that way but it’s also like that just I don’t know what to do with that thing anymore. I'm not getting – I can’t do it by myself. I found that, you know, projects that I do myself don’t have enough momentum and I'm not getting enough help to continue it and I don’t, you know, so, all right I gotta let go of it, you know.